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Patrick_Mucci

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« on: July 13, 2001, 04:59:00 PM »
I was delighted to see Anthony Pioppi's article in the most recent edition of Golfweek, and it got me thinking about reaching more people.

Ron Whitten, Brad Klein and other respected architecture editors can't be overly critical of the work done, or the work not done on any golf course.  

But....  What if the magazine had a guest column, where different individuals, without malice, could voice their sentiments regarding architecture and golf courses.

Golf club atlas presents, "in my opinion"

Think of the well articulated points of view some of the participants to this site could voice.

TEPaul would be limited to one thousand words

Today I played with someone from the golf channel.  I mentioned that they should tune in to GCA, and that an important segment of golf is missing from the golf channel.  And,
that segment is golf course arhcitecture.
I stated that the golf channel should devote some of its broadcast time to architecture.
I intend to find out who is responsible for programming, and write them a letter requesting they devote some time to golf course architects and architecture.  I will post that information here in the hope that others will do the same.

The golf channel presents, Golf club atlas's
In my opinion.  How about it Ran, are you ready for the cameras ?

If we are ever to spread the word, we have to reach a broader base of golfers, and the magazines, and the golf channel just might be the conduit.

What do you think ?


Mike_Cirba

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2001, 05:05:00 PM »
I think Ran's dashing good lucks would be a natural for the camera.  

Just as long as they keep his golf swing off of any of the instructional segments.


Mike_Cirba

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2001, 05:16:00 PM »
TEPaul limited to 1000 words?  My gawd, Patrick, how do you expect that to happen??!  

I think you're limiting your creative thinking here.  Instead, I can envision Tom as a late Sunday night GCA evangelist on "The Golf Channel", exhorting the faithful parishoners with tales of classic restorations, tree-planting gone wrong, the evils of target golf, all while mixing in folksy homilies and true life stories that are stranger than fiction.  

Perhaps Tommy Naccarato could pump up the pewsitters with some appropriately emotional oration beforehand, fluffing up the crowd into a passionate frenzy before TEPaul leaves them ready to start restoration efforts at their own home courses.

GCA could set mundane television viewing on its ear!


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2001, 06:47:00 PM »
Patrick,

Late arrival at gate 18 west...  

We discussed this and I for one wrote the Golf Channel with that idea a couple of years ago.  Never got a response.  We have actually discussed it a couple of times.  Usually when someone on "talk live" like Whitten gives us a plug, or some magazine mentions us we have kicked it around again.  

I'm 1000% for it.  But when I was forced to confront the logic and reality of it, it becomes too clear that the media has to play to the mass taste, which sorry to say is the lowest common denominator in GCA VS CONDTIONING AND WOW FACTORS.  Then there are the conflict of commercial interests.  The advertisers from the CCFAD resorts that could get trashed or identified as all fluff.  Then there is the odd loose comment that would be directed at some of Arnie's GCA firm's work.  

I don't know though.  Maybe if we keep chipping away, someday more folks will look at our bent towards classic and traditional merits of GCA and our approach to discussion will become more mainstream.  I'm not saying we have a monolithic point of view, because we have diverse ideas fro sure.  But, we sort of gather at the same alter to commune in our ideas which may still be way too far out for the mainstream golfing public...oohmmmm...

If the golf channel ever did get with it, we on GCA have at least a dozen top flight actual journalists and other english major communicator types that would fit the role very well with little or no TV training. Perhaps we can buy out Norman Painter and have a nome d'plume for our commentator called Slag Bandoon.  

I do like the idea of a late night Tommy Naccarato as a commentator in the Andy Rooney crumudgeonly vane though.  

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

TEPaul

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2001, 07:12:00 PM »
I've gotten relatively spatial, but I don't know what 1000 words looks like or means. Is that a sentence or a paragraph?

I too would love to see the word out, but so far word of mouth and person to person is doing pretty well.

Not saying where I'm hanging out this weekend except to say there are some super heavy duty honchos around and it seems like most of them have heard of Golfclubatlas!

The general word is that GCA is a great resource and interesting for architectural analysis if it steers clear of personalities and sticks to golf architecture.


Mickey Rooney

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2001, 09:12:00 PM »
  I know!  We'll put on a show! We'll save the old turf. Come on guys 'n gals! It'll be swell!

BillV

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2001, 06:38:00 AM »
The problems that I see are what drive this sort of thing

Who will pay for it?
Who will benefit from it?
Who stands to gain from it?  i.e.make money?

Not that I wouldn't like to see it happen, but most stiffs don't care, we can't afford it, need someone to pay for it and the right message would have to go out (Which is unlikely).  There's too many well-known folks who would send the wrong message before the classical message would get out.  There's not much money to be made.  

Topics for Discussion on The Golf Channel®

-The beauty of Blind
-Learning to appreciate diagonals
-Tan is Good
-Contour and Speed don't mix
-Firm is Good
-Trees are Bad  
-You don't need to hit driver on every hole
-Beauty does not make a great Golf Hole (Feature Tom Doak's Dumb Blondes? (If it hasn't been SM'd)
-Why ANGC is bad for Golf (That'd go over reallllly well)


Other Topics????


Patrick_Mucci

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2001, 06:35:00 PM »
I have the Program directors name and think it's worth the effort to try.

You can always find reasons not to do something.

Some people look at things and say why ?
Others say, Why not.

I'll pick it up tomorrow


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2001, 06:53:00 PM »
Patrick, it would be very cool if they had budget to actually program some special effects.  Take a guy like Bill Coggins and his superior work in 3D views of golf holes that we have seen sometimes on ABC.  Hook up a graphics and photography crew up with a real keen commentator on GC architecture and I have to think that some one will tune in besides us GCA junkies.  Good luck with your pitch.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

BillV

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2001, 06:19:00 AM »
If it'll happen, great.

Who will determine the topics and what viewpoint is presented?  That may determine all.


dick_cesana

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2001, 06:48:00 AM »
Patrick, keep the push on. The journey of a thousand miles begins etc.

Patrick_Mucci

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2001, 06:49:00 AM »
I don't want to lose sight of the potential positive effect a guest Columnist might have, regarding architecture, in some of the high profile golf magazines.

Perhaps Ron and Brad could comment on the possibilities of inserting such a column.

With respect to the magazines and golf channel, what do we have to lose by trying to get some time devoted to architecture ?

Today, more and more clubs seem to be embarking on restorations or renovations and I think there is a greater awareness and a market for architecture.  Not everyone will sit down to read a book on the subject, but they might sit down for a half hour series on architecture and the style of some of the greats.

BillV,

While the broadcast company will determine what they air, they want a successful product, hence they are interested in quality as much as we are, and I'm sure they would seek sound advice from architectual consultants.  

The choice is, standby and do nothing, or make an attempt to start something worthwhile

Today, cable channels have programs on towns in Long Island.  Their history, aerial shots by helicopters, etc., etc..  So, why not a program on a given architect, his history,
his style, his courses, complete with aerials, ground levels, diagrams, and commentary by some top golfers.  I think there is a definite appeal, the question is, is there a market, and that won't be answered until a test balloon goes up.

Attempting to get the golf channel to devote some time to golf course architecture doesn't seem to be such a remote possibility,
But, let's not forget the importance of columns like Anthony Pioppi's, and the role people like Ron Whitten and Brad Klein, and others can play to bring golf course architecture to a more visible position.

I think it's worth the effort, with little downside risk.

Ron and Brad, what do you think about a guest columnist, along the lines of an
"in my opinion" piece.


Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2001, 06:52:00 AM »
In terms of getting the word out beyond our site, GolfClubAtlas.com has recently been included in the club newsletters at Beverly CC and Broadmoor. That translates to potential exposure to several hundred more golfers that we didn't have a month ago, and that's a HUGE help. If other clubs end up doing the same, we will rocket ahead.

Our best bet for golf architecture to be a sexy enough topic for TV is to have the Swedish Bikini Team start posting  

Pat, I know for a fact that The Golf Channel was looking for more programming 12-18 months ago but I don't know their current status. Good luck and stay after them as I know you will and give me some warning if I need to buy an ascot  



Mike_DeVries

  • Karma: +0/-0
Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2001, 07:29:00 PM »
How about a Pro / Con column on the architecture of a particular course or designer?  Give the viewers/readers a good debate, with well-versed but opposing views, and that may lead to some people getting turned to traditional golf architectural values.

Jeff_Stettner

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2001, 07:45:00 PM »
I know this is a little off-track, but I was reading the illustrious Maximum Golf top 100 values and found a sidebar virtually condemning Royal Links in Vegas. I was shocked to see negative words about a potential advertiser, but there they were. Somebody decided to take that risk.  

Patrick_Mucci

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2001, 05:41:00 AM »
Mike DeVries,

I can see your point, but, if someone wrote a pro article about Yale, would the reader be able to discern which party's position is more accurate ?

Perhaps the Pro/Con section could deal with changes to a course.


john f

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2001, 05:47:00 AM »
I have a very good friend who untill recently was the news manager at the Golf Channel. I brought this issue to him more than once and his reply was, you got to be able to sell commercials to air it. Every wonder why there is an abundance of instructional info on the Golf Channel? It sells ad's big time! We all would love an architect's forum or a visual stimulating tour/discription o fthe classics or new courses. The bottom line is will the masses watch or just us fans? If they can't get the masses, it'll never happen.

Bill_Coggins

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2001, 07:09:00 AM »
Patrick,

John F makes a point that I found true with the big three plus ESPN & Golf channel.  If you can find advertisers, you can put your show on a number of networks.  

The tough part is finding the advertisers.


aclayman

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2001, 08:16:00 PM »
I wonder if: it is the masses you must reach what is it the masses need....hmm...lets see... could it be ...ETIQUITTE.

Perhaps a show that sells the education of  etiquiette can work? thru the management of courses and playing situations, the architecture can be the subtext and the settings can be varied so as to educate the more sophisticated without the connections to get on a Pine Valley or C.P. or S.H or SFGC, or Baltasrol,or any of these other courses that only a select few can say they've golfed.


Patrick_Mucci

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2001, 08:38:00 PM »
Noone was sure the Golf Channel would make it, when it began.

How many times can you see the same instructional video, or re-run of the 1968 Masters.  

If an informative, well done segment on architecture was presented, I think people would watch.  

Golf was never a game for the masses, it began and continued for a long while amongst the wealthy.  Calloway isn't selling $ 600 drivers to the masses, and Cadillac and Travelers don't advertise to the masses through golf.

I've always been amazed by people saying you can't do something, yet, enterprenurial drive seems to get it done.  

Stop suggesting impediments and suggest solutions or points of interest !

BE POSITIVE !!!!    


BillV

Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2001, 09:47:00 AM »
An additional topic for the GCA.com Golf Channel architecture show

-Bunkers that actually function as hazards
(Show tape of 2001 Open Championship-Greens at 9, fair fairways, none too severe greens, reasonable rough)

I particularily enjoyed the width of the effect of the bunkers by contouring both fairway and greensites.

This cable show concept surely would be fun, wouldn't it?


Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Getting the word out... beyond our site
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2001, 11:00:00 AM »
What's 30 second spot go for on TGC at say, 10pm? Perhaps some posters golf courses would be willing to sponsor this feature.
Maybe it could start as a 15 minute segment.
I'm sure TGC is always looking for a fresh idea.
"chief sherpa"