[Tommy_Naccarato]

Much congrats to Bill Greenwood, Buddy Marucci, Chip, and the rest of the gang.

Rest in peace Merion Golf Club.

[George_Bahto]

Are you kidding???

[Gary Sherman]

What is that "thing" in the first photo??  Looks like something that my 7 year old son built in his sand pile.

It would be great if you have some original photos and show the comparison.  I looked at Geoff's from "The Golden Age..", and I can't believe this interpretation.

[BarnyF]

Tommy,

The one thing that is right about your picture is that you are in your car looking out.  If you were a member of Merion would you suddenly quit acting so childish.  You are not shitting on their parade, you only mess yourself.

[Mike_Cirba]

Please let me say, given my proximity to Merion, that these are NOT my pictures.

As I mentioned at the end of the last discussion, I have said all I can on this issue.  Let others form their own opinions.

[Mike_Cirba]

BarneyF;

That being said, how is this different from a golf publication taking aerial pictures of the ongoing changes at ANGC?  

We're talking about significant changes at courses that are ranked in the top 10 in the world?  Why wouldn't people interested in architecture want to see the results?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Barney F,
Lets not make this about me, lets make it about what is in composition of the pictures.

Lets hear your opinion. What do you think of this bunker work?

I can't even begin to think that the members and committee members of Merion actually accept this as a suitable substitute for anything in 1930 let alone the historically evolved sand pits known as the "White Faces."

(Better put, you can insult me all you want, but to me nothing is more insulting then this debacle of one of the World's Great Golfing Gems.)

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Barn,
Another thing, is I'm hoping that maybe some members at Oakmont are lurking and take notice. Maybe then they will come to their senses and hire Tom Doak, instead of settling themselves to this dreck.

[kilfara]

I don't know much if anything about Merion, but the first reaction I have from looking at these bunkers (esp. the ones in the second photo) is that they don't look terribly dissimilar from the photos I've seen on this site of the bunkers at Cuscowilla. I would assume from the passions being displayed on this subject that they are less of a knee-jerk reaction to it being Fazio doing the work and have much more to the quality (or lack of same) of the work itself and the way it blends in (i.e. doesn't) with other bunkering on the course and the general flavor of the course.

Cheers,
Darren

(Tommy - I'm inclined to agree with your viewpoint, but all of this "Tom Fazio = Satan Incarnate" nonsense is really beneath you....)

[TEPaul]

BarnyF:

As I've said before, I'm fascinated by some of your posts but only because of the way you construct them and the off-beat and interesting way you write. They are fun to read although I really can't remember you ever saying much interesting about golf architecture; actually I can't remember you saying much specifically about golf architecture at all. Your posts seem to be off-beat takes on the specific opinions of others on golf architecture.

Maybe it's time now you get off of here and go back to surfing the Internet in search of whatever it was you were looking for before you happened on this golf architectural web-site---maybe something like a web-site for  creative writing.

[Tim_Weiman]

Barny F:

Tommy Naccarato can tell you that I'm not a real fan of "Fazio bashing".

But, I think Tommy is right.  Why make this about Tommy?  The issue is the quality of the work being done on one of the world's great courses.

Can you share with us what you really think?  Do you think the work done at Merion makes sense?  If you do, by all means, speak up and tell us why.

[Da Vinci]

The HYSTERICAL thing is that the first picture REALLY DOES look like a mustache!!  

Oh Mona!

[ForkaB]

Tom Paul

Please reconsider your last post.  The last thing we need to do on this forum is to try to drive away people who have a fresh viewpoint on things, even if they express themselves from time to time in a manner which might be esoteric or even offend some of us.  I think that Barny is "here" because he knows quite a bit about golf and is interested in participating and starting conversations on that topic.

Barny

While your post might have breached the special "netiquette" of this site, it had meaning.  However, it is not the first nor the last time that ad hominem attacks have been made on other participants of this DG.  Hang in there, and do let us know more from where and whence you cometh.

Darren

I fully support your point that "Fazio-bashing" should be beneath us.

Tommy N

I very much respect your opinions and your (and that of Mike C, et. al. who know it, which I do not) love for Merion.  However, as a long-distance observer, how do resolve your contempt for the images you have seen with the generally positive (or at least conflicting) things that have been said about a lot of the restoration by those on the ground--i.e. Tom Paul's comments after the Wilson?

All

Just because Fazio might have said things in his book that wound us due to our affection for the oldies but goodies of GCA, that does not necessarily mean that he is some sort of latter day Viking raider out to rape and pillage all the sacred and virgin objects that he sees.  He has built a lot of very good golf courses.  The people at Merion, AGNC, Oakmont, etc. are not complete dummies.  If they were, they would hire Nicklaus or Gary Player to oversee their restorations/improvements.  I very, very, very, very much doubt that Mr. Greenwood and the greens committee and the membership of Merion chose deliberately to vandalize their course, nor do I think they beleive now that they have.  Some of us do.  That's just our opinion.  And, as Signore Mucci says, we may well be wrong.

Rich

[Dr Nipantuck]

The Merion pictures I've seen remind me of a beautiful, middle-aged woman who goes under the plastic surgery knife only to emerge looking much less natural, and much less attractive than she was to begin with.

[John_Conley]

Re: TOM FAZIO

When a guy has command of a system, sticks to it, enjoys a reputation as the best in his field, and gets hired by nearly everyone - doesn't it follow that he will continue doing what he's been doing?

A member of an old course may be very impressed by high-profile (the only jobs Fazio takes, a "high-class" problem) new courses that are markedly different than old classics.  He may misplace his feelings for newer, playable, pretty, well-maintained, and generally enjoyable courses toward only Fazio instead of the genre.

[David Wigler]

Rich,

Generally I agree with most of what you write but I could not disagree more this time.  Please, Please, Please, Tommy bash away.  I have never had the privilege of playing ANGC or Merion and now I never will.  These so called protectors of the game are destroying historical landmarks for nothing more important than vanity and preserving arbitrary figures like par.  How can anyone who truly has a passion about golf not want to scream as loud as possible "Stop it you rich, arrogant, asses.  Leave your courses alone for the enjoyment of future generations."  Merion and ANGC are not meant to be monuments to their living members, they are treasures to be shared long after the Hootie's and Buddy's of the world have died.  So please Tommy, bash some more.  Who knows, maybe some lurker will prevent the destruction of another classic......Ooop's, did I just blow any chance of every being invited to ANGC or Merion.

[TEPaul]

Rich:

OK, I will reconsider my last post to BarnyF--but only if he starts to talk more about golf architecture! You know, things like his own opinion of things to do with architecture not just what a jerk someone else is because that person happens to have a strong opinion.

[TEPaul]

I guess I should amend that last post slightly since this is about TommyN to some extent and he has certainly called people jerks for their opinions--almost threatened to have them murdered! But when TommyN does that, you will notice, he always follows it up with how he feels about the architecture and how he thinks they are wrong about the architecture.

All BarnyF said was TommyN was a child to say what he says. He should tell him why he feels that way regarding the architecture of it all. Maybe BarnyF has some big thing about photos taken out of car windows of a private golf course, but that's meaningless on here!

[ForkaB]

......or, John, he or she may honestly think that Fazio is the best person for the job, whatever that may be.......

David

I'm not sure if I agree with myself most of the time so I'm glad somebody does!  I think I hear what you are saying, but one of my points of view is that I am very, very glad that I am playing today, with today's equipment on today's courses rather than with featheries and gutties and hickory shafts on 5000 yards scruffy courses as my great grandparents did at the turn of the last century.  I don't fear the future and I do not think that anybody could do anything to Merion of AGNC that would take away my pleasure in playing those courses, regardless of what they looked like in the 1930's or even last year.

Tom P

Thanks for the reply.  I've been called or implied to be a jerk enough on this site, and probably called or implied that somebody else was a jerk to know that this sort of thing happens in the heat of "battle."  We shouldn't do, but we do, and we get over it.

[Matt_Ward]

Tommy:

Great thread and kudos for taking the pictures.

Barney reminds me of the people who blamed Watergate on the reporters Woodward and Bernstein. It's time to look at the real culprits -- club leadership that is woefully ignorant of it's club pedigree and a crass attempt by an architect intent on forging his signature (whatever that is) on a treasure in American golf.

A clear shame ...

[aclayman]

Even with my novitiate status viewing my first photo of Merion, ever, Thanks to Tommy
I "got it" right off. Those bunkers look like a joke or more sucsincly put: They do not look like they belong on some "National Treasure" that heretofore was the impression I've been absorbing on GCA.com.

And Tommy, without even having read those books you recomended I feel what they probably say. Especially now, after having seen this.

Personally, I hope the members are happy. Afterall, bedfellows and all.

[Brian Phillips]

Tommy,

You know how I feel about your bashing but this time I think you are right to voice your opinion.

I feel sorry for Merion but as someone said if so many think Fazio is good then maybe we are all wrong about architecture. I hope not.  I would love to get everyone on this site together and try to design our own course.

Last week I showed one of my designs to a controller at another site and he asked why do you have bunkers in the middle of the fairway?  WHT NOT?

Tom Paul,

Harsh words from a man who normally is so good with his words.  Were you in a rush?  At least Barny is here, that's the most important thing..

[John_Conley]

Someone said on another post that Rich Goodale is an expert tennis player, yet he obviously is passionate about golf as well.  It got me thinking...

Isn't it great that this game we love isn't played on a standard surface like tennis or (for the most critical dimensions ) baseball?

We'd have nothing to talk about but the speed of the greens!

[ForkaB]

John

I have never been an "expert" at anything, including tennis.  I do know, however, that the 4 tennis "majors" are played on 3 very different surfaces--hard court (US and Australia), clay (French) and grass Wimbledon).  They are so different that it is hard to conceive of Pete Sampras winning the French or Gustavo Kuerten winning Wimbledon, whereas Tiger should be the clear favorite (regardless of how badly he has been playing today) on any golf course, of any kind, anywhere in the world.

And yet, you are right....there is much more variety between two single golf shots than there is between any two tennis courts in the world........

Vive les differences!

[John_Conley]

Don't be so modest, Rich.  You certainly must have some areas in which you excel.

I am no expert on the game of golf, but do have special talents and am self-proclaimed to be the world's greatest lover.

GCA just offers a better board!

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