[Matt_Ward]

I travel quite a bit during the year and certainly keep my eye on a number of courses as a rating panelist for GD.

One of the biggest pet peeves I have with many clubs is their failure to have level tees at all of the playing areas.

As a friend of mine mentioned to me some time ago there are clubs that will spend upteen $$$ in having flower arrangements, water falls, skylights, etc, and all the rest of the gigor but when it comes time for the ultimate area of detail ... level tees, they miss the boat.

Does anyone not realize how important level tees are to the playing of a course? Is anyone paying attention???

This is not rocket science type stuff -- all it takes is a carpenter's rule and you can see how dramatically off things are at many clubs.

The culprits cross all sectors of the game and include not just the municipal but some of the biggest names in the game.

Architects who create pad tees for maximum playability would be shocked to see some of these existing pad tees with more slope than the pitching mound at Yankee Stadium!!!

When I play a course and see the tees are generally not level it's a 95 percent signal that other aspects of detail are missing.

A related problem to unlevel tees are tees that are barely cut but full of grass. They have the shag carpet look and you can tell because as you walk off them you see footprints behind you. Sometimes these extra padded tees require an extra long tee in order to get the base of the tee in solid ground.

If a golf course cannot present level tees from all hitting areas you cannot enjoy the course to the maximum. Please do not think I am advocating Augusta National type conditioned tees. Just give level tees, even if its dirt, so that the player has the opportunity in making a score representative of his / her ability and not handicapped at the outset by neglectful practices.

I'd be most interested int he comments of others. Thanks ...

[ForkaB]

Matt

I am 99.99% behind you on this.  To me one of the things that separates the well-maintained course from the average good course is the state of the tees.

However....if you want to step out of the box (as it were) for a second, what would be wrong with a downhill/sidehill sloping tee on a 210 yard hole (back tees only) which forced all golfers to hit a real golf shot to the green?..........

[Matt_Ward]

Rich:

While you're at it why not balance dishes at the end of one foot while keeping one planted to hit your shot???

All kidding aside -- there are too many clubs that are either mandating their superintendent's time to take care of unrelated concerns to the course or simply they have a superintendent who does not understand the game and how level tees are integral in golf.

I don't want to publicly humiliate the so-called top names clubs in the USA which have deplorable tees and year after year simply continue the same practice.

I am fully aware of the countless pounding that tees do receive -- especially on par-3 holes. Clearly, it is critical in the original design to have as much teeing area as one can possibly provide and move the play accordingly to keep wear and tear to a minimum.

But when I see tees on par-4's and par-5's that are not level I am ready to just leave the course. Bethpage Black for years was probably the champion of unlevel tees. Before the total makeover I can remember playing the back tees on a few holes (i.e. 4th, 11th, 12, 15th and 18th, to name just a few) that were a real challenge to keep your balance when hitting.

Like I said before the ultra private clubs are no less guilty. Nothing robs the enjoyment of playing a golf course you are most eager to play then to be stuck with unlevel tees hole after hole after hole.

Sorry everyone for the soap box speech ...

[ForkaB]

Matt

I am now 100% behind you on your crusade.

However, th germ on an idea that I was yring to plant was based on some other conversation on this DG which talked about the need to think "out of the box."  This is to say, why not:

--have 15 hole courses?
--have 30-yard pitch over a bunker par 3's?
--have 875 yard par 7's?
--have the occasionalawkwardly slating tee
--have greens where "par" involves a 3 putt (oops, that's #1 at NGLA, isn't it?)

Just thinking.....

[Lou_Duran]

Uneven tees are a problem everywhere, even at relatively new courses.  I nave noticed that the tips often have the most uneven surfaces.  This is particularly bad because there usually isn't a two club area behind the tee, nor a flat spot on the borders.

The effect is that not only are you having to fight the lie, but sometimes you are forced to play the wrong side of the tee for the type of shot that you would like to execute.  There are times when you can use a side slope to your advantage, but mostly, uneven lies on the tee present another variable which the architect did not likely consider when designing the course.

For those with strong backgrounds in construction and maintenance, what are the major causes of the ground settling?  Are there any relatively inexpensive methods of leveling mature tees?  Are there preventive practices such as aerification, top-dressing, and rolling?  

[Slag_Bandoon]

  Lou, It is not a major job.  The sod can be shaved in strips and sections to be laid aside.
The ground can then be leveled with fill or displacement of existing material.
Wetted, then sod goes back on.  Rope it off for a week or so, depending on weather, and the issue is hurdled.  

 The next issue is more important... how to level out my swing.  

[Laser]

Laser leveling is a common practice these days, and is fairly inexpensive
(.10 to .13 cents per sq. ft.). Its the closest you can to level while maintainig positive surface drainage.

[Charles]

In a related department, I find it almost as annoying when the tee markers are placed too far back in the box, not allowing the option of moving back two club lengths and still having a reasonable stance.

[JohnV]

Tees are also my biggest bug-a-boo as an official.  We see some of the worst tee boxes I've ever seen on some of the newer courses that the Futures Tour plays on.  I wonder if anyone even bothers to build them to any level of specification or if they just pile up some dirt and throw down some seed.

Lou, if you think the tips are bad you should see some of the forward tee boxes.  But they are even worse in Scotland or Ireland.  I remember my wife having to tee off between markers that were set in the walkway through the rough from the back tees to the fairway at Portmarnock.

[aclayman]

Surprise surprise I disagree.

I like level tee boxes as much as you do. However, I see the justification for most of the slanted ones.

I first recall feeling this way at that Aiken S.C. cc course built in 1895. It was on the last hole, a short par four up the hill. The tee was so narrow and slanted I couldn't help but notice. When I made the comment my host, Dr Mackie Walker, told me that people had been bitching about that tee forever. He then pointed out that the hole was not a strong finishing hole, for such a great course, and the slant provided some defense on a relatively easy strategic design.

At pacific grove almost every tee is slanted and is a big part of the strategic design. Or at least it is something that I must factor in, if I want to hit the shot that is necc.

Drainage is another reason that flat is probably not, where its at.

Im also in favor of No Taxes but that isn't the real world.  

[Ran Morrissett]

I place little importance on level tees given that you are already guaranteed a perfect lie with a teed-up ball.

In fact, some tees are crowned and if you want to hit a draw, you tee it up on the left side and if you want to hit a fade, tee it up on the right and let the slight slope help you hit the desired shape shot.

Fishers Island has never enjoyed level tees; perhaps that explains its absence from Golf Digest's top 100 until recently?

Cheers,

PS Don't go to Pennard or Tenby if level tees are a worry.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt,

Many courses expanded their tees with in- house labor, and many times the tees were improperly constructed.

A company called Laser-turf which I became aware of in 1991 does an excellent job, either redoing the entire teeing area, including centering, or through a top dressing program.  I would recommend the former, with 2 degree pitch toe to heel-righty, for drainage.

[Matt_Ward]

Ran: You must be a super golfer since level tees don't matter to you!

Just because the ball is teed up it is no less critical to have your feet on ground that is level for both of your feet.

If level tees were not important than let's have tees with severe slopes. You know that would be ridiculous!

aclayman: when a club official says tees are deliberately slanted in order to ADD difficulty to a particular hole please let me know what size rubber room this person resides in!!!

If adding difficulty is the case then let's add wind mills and loop-to-loops on the greens like putt-putt!!!

While we're at it let's build walls in front of tees and force players to carry them from the tee.

Any club official who SERIOUSLY believes that unlevel tees are part of the strategy of the game also believes the tooth fairy is a real person.

You can provide adequate drainage while keeping vast areas of a tee level and conducive to play. I'd still like to know from superintendents who participate on this site why tees aren't rigorously inspected each spring for level quality.

I suspect that club members have a number of superintendents busy doing any number of things totally unrelated to the course and more about plantings, flowers around the clubhouse.

[Jeff_McDowell]

Making a level tee is not as easy as it sounds.

I redesigned a tee for a club.  They used a member that is an earthworks contractor to move the dirt. The guy pulled his equipment off the site before I could make an inspection.  It wasn't close to flat.

I spent six hours with a rake leveling the tee by hand.  It's hard and tedious work, and the tolerances are extremely small.

[kilfara]

They were just starting to laser-level a bunch of the tees at Brookline when I started playing my college golf there, and I remember a huge difference between the way they played during my freshman year and during my later years. The tees did have to be rendered out of commission for a while, though, while the process was undertaken...maybe that's why lots of clubs don't go for it?

Anyway, while I can see the logic in the Devil's Advocate position on crooked tees - but admit it, guys, you're not being THAT serious, are you? - what do you think the loss in pace-of-play is for every guy who takes 30-60 seconds looking for a level spot on a tee (where there isn't one) and then proceeds to hit a much worse drive (with a driver, of course) than he otherwise might have with a level lie?

Ran, looks like Paul Turner and I are going out to Pennard next week - looking forward to see those slopey tees!  

Cheers,
Darren

[Matt_Ward]

Jeff:

Thanks for the response.

Yes, I know it can be tough work. Years ago I worked on a crew that did a variety of course related repairs -- including work connected to tees and keeping them level. It's not easy or fast.

However, the great courses pride themselves on the details. When tees are not level I will argue the point that you don't have golf -- you have a game of gotcha!

When clubs spend $$$ on all other items (the type of pratice balls, the color of the carpeting, the size of the shower heads, etc, etc, etc, I am amazed how little effort and recognition the role tees play in golf actually gets.

Again, I will stress so that there is no confusion, I am not advocating Augusta National type tees that are cut and prepared like a billiard table. I am saying that tees must be uniformly level and that they should be cut so that firm footing can take place without footprints being seen.

Tees are the orphan in course maintenance. They often get second or third hand attention after the putting greens and fairways.

What's clear is that architects geared their design around putting greens and no less tees. Tees are the starting point and if they are not prepared correctly you create a sour disposition that can last throughout the round.

Yes, having level tees is hard work, but when I see manpower directed to all other concerns that DON'T HAVE A SHREAD OF A CONNECTION TO THE ACTUAL GAME I become quite upset with the lack of clear priorities.

By definition if a tee is not level it is not a tee. You can call it the starting point, but please refrain from identifying it as a tee.

[T_MacWood]

I've never worried too much about a level tee or even if the tee is aligned with the target. Just one more opportunity for thinking golfer to take advantage. Whatever possible difficulty a tee might present it is equal for everyone.

[Bill_Coggins]

Open your eye wide please...

Perhaps a little reminder would be useful.  The origins of golf include an early time when one had finished playing a hole, you moved severl club lengths from the pin placement, pinched together sand ontop of which the ball was placed, then you made your first stroke on the next hole.

The ball was the only item on the "tee".  The golfer never was on the tee.  As for level ground, this was most certainly a preference, but not assured.

And now in this thread we have architecture buffs insisting that a tee must be level.  Why?  On what basis do you claim that otherwise is goofy-golf.  I hereby declare such an insistence part of the "Augusta Effect" for modern day boys needing perfect conditions.

Golf is not about "fair" or in this case "level."  The beauty of golf is in how one handles the "unfair", the bad/excellent bounce.  Perhaps an unfair teeing ground is more golf than modern sensibilities allow.  

If you want a level tee, try Captain Hook's at Myrtle Beach - they've even got one hole on a boat.

[Lou_Duran]

Bill:

In all of the gca literature, have you ever seen a reference to building uneven tees to make the game more interesting or to reward the thinking player?  Are you aware of an architect who purposely designs sloped tees to promote more strategy in the game?  The game has evolved from the time when nature and sheep created and maitained the links.  I for one have no desire to dig out my ball from a rabbit hole, and proceed to build a sand tee a few feet from where I just posted my 10 on a 240 yard hole.  But, that's just me.

Tom:

So if Weiskopf planted a huge oak right in front of 17 at Scarlet it would be okay with you because everyone else would also have to deal with it when they played the hole?  The tee is the only area where you are supposed to be guaranteed a relatively flat lie.  Many architects design par 3 greens with more difficult hazards and surrounds because the angle of the approach is fixed and the tee allows a perfect lie.  If a sloped tee does not bother you, you must be one mentally tough hombre.  

[Scott_Burroughs]

I, too, prefer level tees, of which my club has few, but I learn to live with it.  I usually prefer the most level spot on a tee vs. the best side for the type of shot needed.  I, probably like most others, prefer the ball above my feet in general vs. below my feet.   But when using a driver/wood off the tee, I prefer it below my feet.  I find that most uneven tees have the ball above the feet, and I don't know why.

The biggest beef about my club is the range.  Thank God it's grass, as I refuse to hit off of mats (when's the last time you hit off of artificial turf on a course?).  It also is generously wide, about 50 yards or so.  But the bottom of the range is about 8-10 feet below the top of the range, so all shots are uphill lies.  Too many tentative swings, worried about hitting fat shots.  Always have to choke up.

And the grass.  Why do so many ranges have a different sod type than the course they're on?  I find that here in the south, that most ranges have sand-based ranges and dirt-based fairways.  I've never believed that a range was solely for the purpose of practicing swing memory, but for practicing the conditions of the course you're about to play.  Same goes with putting greens.  Why are so many putting greens a different speed/firmness than the ones on the course?

[Ed_Baker]

One time, in a tournament at our club, our group arrived at the 15th tee to find the tee markers positioned so that the right marker was actually on the side of a hill some 12" above the "tee box".

Being a lifelong "cutter" of the ball,and very "into" the match, I teed my ball up on the extreme right side of the markers(as I usually do) and proceeded to hit the most beautiful high draw into the left side of the fairway.

As we were leaving the tee,one of my opponents remarked,"Bakey,why don't you take that hill with you,that's the best drive you've hit all day!

I have no particular preference for level tees, unless of course the ball is BELOW my feet!(smiley face)

[T_MacWood]

Lou
If your going to site a rediculous example why not a twenty foot chain link fence in front of the tee. Or a 100 foot Oak in the middle of the green. A level tee is not a design characteristic, it is a SLIGHT construction flaw or maintenance flaw. I had no idea I was guaranteed anything on a golf course.

To me a tee that is not perfectly flat is no big deal, afterall the fairway is not perfectly flat and the greens are not perfectly flat. The game has traditionly required the golfer to play shots off of uneven lies. And were not talking about a steep side hill - we've all seen the crowned tee or up-sloped tee or even canted down or sidehill tee. Additionly unlike the other playing surfaces you're able to choose the exact point between the markers you wish to play, your able to choose if you are going to play off the turf or elevated above the turf on a tee. Many of the same people who complain about level tees also complain about patchy turf or less the perfectly mowed shaggy surfaces - its not among my top priorities. As long as its firm I'm happy.

[Michael Moore]

As one who has previously expressed his love of undulating greens, rolling fairways with all sorts of lies, and level tee boxes, I must ask Ran (and TE Paul) -

Should I bring my left-handed driver to whack a draw off of some of these unilaterally slanted tee boxes?  

[Lou_Duran]

Scott:

I too share your concern about practice facilities, which are somewhat deficient at my home club near Dallas.  Some superintendents use sand on the range because they believe it is a superior growth medium.  Our sup. says that he prefers sand because he has to water heavily in order to get the bermuda to spread quickly, and if he covered the divots with top soil, it would just turn into a muddy mess.  Personally, I think it is a conspiracy with the pro shop so our clubs wear out faster and we have to replace them more often.

[jglenn]

I'm sure most of you know this already, so I'm surprised not to have seen it mentionned already (although I might have missed it).

Even the best built tees are not supposed to be perfectly level.  Never.  

They are ever-so-slightly sloped, usualy by 1%, for surface runoff.  Ideally, the are sloped towards the back, since an slightly uphill lie is easier to hit from.  The second best option is a forward slope.  As a last resort, we would specify a side slope.

However, this slope is, at least in theory, a perfectly even slope across the surface of the tee.  And it is entirely impossible to "feel" a slope of 1%.  It would "feel" perfectly level.  

What we need to avoid is to have slight humps and, more especially, slight hollows within this slope, which I think is what the topic of the original post was about.

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