[Craig_Rokke]

I saw it again. Golf marketers touting a club
as "The Pebble Beach of the East." I guess everything is relative. Samoset in Maine has some nice seaside holes. So does Lighthouse Sound in Maryland. And although the Ocean Course is a great course, it lacks
the dramatic seaside setting enjoyed by Pebble. People seem to use this marketing catch-phrase without too much hesitation.

Are there any courses on the Atlantic seaboard that you'd consider to be even
half as spectacular as Pebble?

[Ran Morrissett]

Fishers Island enjoys a competitive setting with Pebble Beach

[Geoff_Shackelford]

When I was at Tallgrass last fall, I was informed by the starter that someone was building "the Pebble Beach of the east" just down the street. I said, well uh, we'll see what that means, I'm going there in a minute. Sure enough, Friar's Head will not fit that description. It'll be more like the Cypress Point of the east.

[Slag_Bandoon]

 Wow Geoff, That's mighty praise. Especially from your diverse experiences.  Were you being facetious or do you mean that?    

[Geoff_Shackelford]

It's going to be very special. I suggested it as a "Cypress Point of the east" instead of Pebble Beach because of the varied terrain, as well as the look and feel of the dunes amidst the tall pines (or whatever they are!). You swear you are in Monterey. On top of that, I think Coore and Crenshaw and "the boys" are taking their ideas to another level, comparable to anything they've done to this point.

So I guess this has little to do with ocean hole filled courses in the east, as Craig's post intended. But I was reminded of the comments made to me at Tallgrass about the "Pebble Beach of the East!" I laughed during the 15 minute drive to Friar's Head, because I just had no idea what to expect and couldn't believe people actually would think of a "Pebble Beach of the east." And then I saw the place and thought, jeeze, this is unbelievable!

[Gene Greco]

Fisher's Island. Look no further.

[Gib_Papazian]

Please. This sounds suspiciously like one of those press releases calling something the "Pine Valley of the  . . . . . ."

Plus, Fishers is a better golf course than Pebble.

[Craig_Rokke]

I have not been to Pebble Beach, but Casa
de Campo (yes, it's not along the Atlantic seaboard)must compare favorably in that regard. There must be at least 8 or 9 holes
that are along or in the Ocean. Easily the
most visually dramatic course I've played.

Hill's Lighthouse Sound was actually the course touted as the Pebble Beach of the east. I've seen a few pictures of some holes on the bay with a nice view of the Ocean City skyline. If Pebble is the big leagues, Lighthouse must be single A ball from a scenery standpoint.

[ed_getka]

Geoff
  When is Friar's Head due to be completed, and do you know if it will be open to the public?

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Geoff, Please enlighten me as to where Tallgrass is and when will it be completed. I am assuming it will be private or a resort. Is that the case. John

[Craig_Rokke]

Reportedly Tallgrass is open & public.

[Geoff_Shackelford]

Ed,
Friar's Head will be private.

John,
Tallgrass is indeed open for play. It opened sometime last year and is really good. If you get out that way, also try to stop in and see George Bahto's course, Stonebridge. It's a Macdonald/Raynor tribute course, only with many of the renditions enhanced. It's also open for play and public.
Geoff

[T_MacWood]

I'm not sure there will ever be a Pebble Beach-East, or North or South for that matter.

Casa de Campo is very dramatic, but its scale is smaller more intimate. Its holes are only slighted elevated above the sea, you could easily put your bag down and wade out into the warm Caribean -- very enticing. Where as PB enjoys wild elevation changes and has an awe inspiring dangerous quality. Eastward Ho! has similar elevation changes and panaramic views, but it coast line is less rugged and it doesn't have the number of shots that must challenge the sea.

[Mike_Cirba]

Lighthouse Sound is to Pebble Beach what Samoset (another PB of the East) is to Cypress Point.

Picture a very difficult course with penal green surrounds that might be playable inland, built in a wind tunnel along a marshy bay.  

I can't imagine how long it takes groups to play on a crowded, windy summer day.    

[Allen_Rebstock]

Geoff, where is this Tallgrass, Stonebridge, & Friar's Head? You still did not mention were this is. Please give us town & state. I'd guess we're talking Long Island or New Jersey    

[SPDB]

Friar's Head is in Riverhead, New York. It is located where the two forks split on the eastern end of Long Island.

That it will be the Cypress Pt. of the East Coast is a statement on which I would like to hear more, since Riverhead is not nearly as dramatic as the California coast. It is is mostly farmland.

[M.W._Burrows]

The best description I've heard of Friar's Head is Cypress Point meets Pine Valley.  I've never played Cypress but have played Pine Valley and I would say this is an accurate assessment.  The course literally plays over and around dunes.  It's going to be unbelievable.

[Tim_Weiman]

Geoff Shackelford:

Saying that any site is the "Pebble Beach or Cypress Point of the East" seems pretty outrageous.

However, having recently seen Friars Head I would agree: nothing looks remotely like Pebble Beach, but there are several holes that evoke the Cypress Point look and feel.

I'm sure Friars Head will be the subject of considerable discussion in the years ahead.  For the moment, I'll limit my comments to:

a) the scale of the sand dunes is almost overwhelming

b) the final five holes are going to be awesome

SPDB:

You're right.  Most of the Riverhead area is relatively flat farmland.

Don't be misled.

[Geoff_Shackelford]

Tim,
It is outrageous if taken at face value, just like some people got so worked up when Tom Doak compared the two courses at Bandon as one being the Pebble Beach and one the Cypress Point. He was merely trying to explain the difference in style, flow, texture, character, etc..., he was not saying his course was the Cypress Point of Oregon. And in the case of Friar's Head, it's simply a way to put the look and character into perspective. It is not in any way a Pebble Beach style cliff top course, it's more like Cypress in the way you will play through little bits of everything and yet feel like it all flows together: farmland, dunes, trees, more dunes, all with views of the water, and as I pointed out in my article on the now defunct golf.com, the dunes in places also have a Pine Valley look and feel. It's crazy, beautiful and going to be like nothing else in golf.

Incidentally, I'm not sure why the notion of farmland golf automatically carries a negative connotation, since I've seem some farmland that would make for wonderful golf course terrain. At Friar's Head, the fifth and sixth holes were as good as any on the property when I was there, and they were down in the farmland. I guess a lot of people want dramatic shifts in elevation, or perhaps they just view a place like Friar's Head from the road and don't see what's actually in the ground. Because the farmland holes are pretty stellar if you like your architecture fun and walkable with a big side order of Max Behr's ole favorite, golf with "an intelligent purpose."

Allen,
Tallgrass is Gil Hanse's daily fee course on Long Island, Shoreham I believe is the nearest town. Beautiful bunkering, some stellar short 4's and what public golf should be building mroe of. Stonebridge is George Bahto's redesign in Haupaugge (sp?). George's redo is a Macdonald/Raynor tribute only magnified, with some of the wildest and coolest greens you'll ever see, modern or classic. Like his mentors, George took the basic concepts and put his own twist on them.
Geoff

[John_D._Bernhardt]

thank you Geoff, Is Friars head to be super private or do you think one can get on with call from home pro etc. I really feel the need to play more in the northeast for alot od reasons.

[Tim_Weiman]

Geoff:

If I remeber the holes correctly, then I agree #5 and #6 are going to be pretty cool.

Most importantly, I agree that Friars Head "won't be like anything else".  I'm a big fan of a course having its own character. Certainly, that will be said of FH.

[Tony Nysse]

Gentleman,
  I worked at Friar's Head for Coore/Crenshaw and the boys this past summer and many of your statements are true. First of all, C&C  have the best group of guys to work with in the industry...Jimbo, Big Lou, "Mr. Bradley", Dave Axland and "The Man." It will be unlike anything that C&C, or any designer have done to date. The dunes on the back nine hole are simply amazing.. Uncomparable to any course, but maybe Cypress. The attention to detail that the boys make shows why C&C keep putting out great tracks everytime. The property itself is some of the best land for a golf course, maybe ever. KB, I know that you're extremly proud of what is taking place inside the fence...it's just going to keep getting better, isn't it? Keep in touch

[pulliamjs]

Easy.  The Ocean Couse at Kiawah.  Next question.

BTW, the "Pebble Beach of the Midwest" is Whistling Straights--an absolutely magnificient track.

I think it blows Pebble away.

[Dick_Sayer]

Has anyone played Eastward Ho in Chatham on Cape Cod ?  Now that's a series of photo-ops just waiting to happen every time your turn around.  It's like a combination of Pebble Beach, National Golf Links on LI and Old Head in Ireland. The wind is always there, and it's constantly changing directions. It's one of those courses you'll never forget, regardless of how long you play the game.

[Mike @ Kiawah]

We like to think of Pebble Beach as the Kiawah Island of the West...  

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