[Patrick_Mucci]

Rich,

Read Dave Pelz's book, "Putt like the Pros"
Chapter 5, diagram 5.4.

Spike marks are concentrated around the hole, because that is where everyone ends up, irrespective of where they began.

The lumpy doughnut also equates to the densist concentration of spike marks.

In addition most people aren't counting on holing putts of 20-30-40 feet, so spike marks removed from the hole have little physical or physchological impact.  They are anticipating holing a three footer, and that is where spike marks impact the putt and the golfers mind.  And that is where a creative use of the putter can create a direct depression and route to the hole.  
Since spikes are going the way of dinosaurs, the issue is disappearing with it.

While the USGA is not infallible, it's nice to have them agreeing with me.

Where else do you think the USGA has it wrong

[ForkaB]

Patrick

If and when we ever play (hope we do!) I'll let you bring a hoe for your 14th club, allow you to build whatever sort of putting channel you want to on any green (your course, of course) and I don't think it would help you hole any more putts than you usually do.

I think that the USGA is so afraid of "slippery slopes" that they don't ever try to even start to think how nice the view might be if they took the intellectual high ground for once.  Other than that, they are perfect.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rich,

I once got hustled by a guy who said he could make 10 or 12 8 foot putts in a row.
I bet him, he made them, then showed me how.
He placed the (heavy) flag pole on the green with one end in the hole.  After a few minutes he removed it, and low and behold their was a nice channel leading from where he putted the balls to the hole.  He said it worked best in the morning or after a rain.  I became a believer that day, and...
I have seen people create channels under the guise of spike mark repair, so as bothersome as they were, they should be fixed or tapped down after one putts.  I don't want anyone altering their line of play before they execute a shot.

Fortunately, I haven't seen a spike mark in years, other than on TV.

[RobertWalker]

attn Rich Goodale:
Could you provide an example of where the USGA could, but did not "take the intellectual high ground".

[ForkaB]

spike marks, range finders (see above)

[RobertWalker]

Rich Goodale:
Can you explain?

[ForkaB]

Sorry Robert, but this issue is too trivial for me to try to explain more than I have already.

[RobertWalker]

huh?

[ForkaB]

Exactly!

[ForkaB]

Patrick

I just noticed your last post(I had checked out, mentally, from this thread, so I didn't see it until now).  I trust you vis a vis the heavy flagstick trick, but I doubt it would work on any course that was set up fast and firm and on which even a V1 dropped from 100 yards will not make a dent.  Even if it did, getting the ball into the channel in the first place might be problematical for some of us

Your experiences of the guys who use the guise of spike marks to "channel" their putts is interesting.  They could, of course, do exactly the same thing under the guise of repairing an old pitch mark, and probably do so more effectively given the amount of repair that is allowed under the rules.  Maybe the powers that be could have said, in one of their Solomon-like decisions, you can tap down spike marks with your putter, but only if your putter is kept perpendicular to the hole

More interestingly, I wonder if your experience is the same as mine in that the people who use this (and other subtle tricks) to cheat tend to be some of the very best golfers, particularly those who are struggling to stay competitive?  If so, is it an ego thing or a skill thing (i.e. the hacker wouldn't know how to move his marker on the green, even if he wanted to!).  Just wondering.

[Dan King]

If the concern is a spike mark will knock a ball off-line, isn't it just as likely a spike mark could also knock a ball on-line?

If you have a green that is heavily spiked up, wouldn't only tapping down spike marks in your line give you a better chance of making the putt?  By making a line of tapped down spike marks along your line, if your ball was to lose its line, you now have the chance of a spike mark pushing it back on-line.

Dan King
dking@danking.org

quote:"They looked as if they had trees growing out of them."
--Tom Kite (on the Spike marks on Riviera greens during the '95 PGA Championship)

[ForkaB]

Since, as Patrick has said, spike marks are going the way of dot.com millionaires due to soft-"spikes", this conversation is getting more and more hysterical (oops, I meant historical) by the moment.

[kicker]

btua

[Lou_Duran]

Del:

Concerning your question/comment to George P. regarding profitable opportunities for executive/shorter courses, I know of an owner/developer north of Toronto with one such project that has been doing quite well for a few years.  If you are interested in discussing this further, post your email address or forward it through Tom Paul or Ran.

RE: Distance limitantions- this issue has been discussed repeatedly here so it must be extremely important, at least to those participating on this forum.  Unfortunately, I suspect that we are a very small minority.

For professional and scratch amateur competitions, I support an official tournament ball that can be widely manufactured to specific performance specifications based on sound scientific principles.  For club tournaments and regular play, I believe that the individual clubs can decide whether to adopt this official ball, or allow another ball in the USGA's conforming list (assuming that the USGA would still see a need for such a list).  Given that the average handicap has not been lowered signicantly for many years, I don't see the urgency to force a shorter ball on the vast majority of golfers.

While I agree with Tom Mac. that advancement in golf club technology is also a large part of the problem, it would be extremely difficult to make headways here (in terms of rolling back the clock).  I do hope that the USGA holds its ground on the CoR issue, and looks more closely at equipment advancements aimed at anyone else but the common golfer.

Rich- if you are lurking here, I am still curious about what you learned about golf based on being played through as a single by a group of Scots.  

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