[Ran Morrissett]

Since our first interview with Tom in June 1999, Renaissance Design has been busy and with Pacific Dunes jumping into GOLF's world rankings at #26,  they are about to get a whole lot busier.

I have one question: I am playing Beechtree this week - what are the highlights? Isn't the 8th supposed to be perhaps their best three shotter to date?

Cheers,

[Mike_Cirba]

Ran,

The 8th is the hole that stands out in my mind as I think about Beechtree.  Simply an excellent three-shotter that is all about angles.

Overall, the course is FUN.  I'll try to write more later.

[ForkaB]

Tom D

I'm surprised and intrigued by the good ink you give to Halifax GC.  I have two very close friends from Halifax, both very good golfers (one of which I think still holds the amateur course record at HGC) and in the 20+ years I have known them they have never had a good word to say about the place.  No real bad words, either, just that it is OK, but not much more.

What have they been missing?

Cheers

Rich

[Slag_Bandoon]

 Another eye opener but, disturbing that Tom has no more commissions lined up in my area (Oregon) and Fazio and Nicklaus do.  I can't move to Barnbougle! I'd have to buy new constellation charts.  

 "Shane !!! Come back Shane!"  

[Tim_Codd]

Ran
In regards to Beechtree 8 is definitely a highlight. However, several or the two shotters are excellent examples of good architectural points. I think you will enjoy 14, 15. Back to back visually pleasing. With the bunker on 14 tempting for a better line in, while going left produces a much tougher carry into a strong green. While 15 tempts you to hug the left to find the shorte line but with touble in various forms throughout.
 The one shotters are perhaps the least exciting portion of the Course IMHO but still enjoyable with 4 a long carry to a push up green with difficult chipping my favorite. I will be interested to here your thoughts after playing. Still I feel Beechtree is a better test than Bulle Rock down the road with all of it's Favorable media play.  
       Cheers  T.P.C.

[Matt_Ward]

Ran --

The best way to appreciate Beechtree is to also play Bulle Rock. The styles are clearly different and the philopshies of Doak v Dye is an interesting comparison.

I prefer Bulle Rock over Beechtree because I believe it's a better and more exacting layout. That does not mean to say that I believe Beechtree is inferior. Beechtree has a solid wonderful flow as you progress through the round.

Agree with Tim on the one-shotters, but from the par-5 8th through the conclusion the course will not permit flawed shotmaking. To have two first rate courses so near each other will always make for interesting 19th hole banter.

[Mike_Cirba]

Matt Ward and I have had this debate before, but put me firmly in the Beechtree camp.  

On the other hand, Matt hits the ball 50 yards further than I do, so perhaps he found the uphill "slog" elements of Bulle Rock less of a challenge and yawn-inducer than I did.  

I still want someone to explain to me how the right-side alternate fairway at Bulle Rock works from a strategic perspective, even if it was a reachable carry over water!
http://www.bullerock.com/South%20Course/hole9.htm  

Matt?  

By the way, I got your package Matt.  THANKS!, and I'll be responding shortly.

[George Pazin]

Tom D -

The one thing I'd like to know re: Pacific Dunes was how your cumulative experience designing may have affected its design. In other words, how would it have been similar or different if it had been one of your first commissions?

[Paul_Daley]

Ran:

Thanks for the update on Tom and his company; so much has elapsed since the 1999 interview.

It is going to be fascinating to see how Tom juggles the increased demand for his work, coupled against the desire to make each post a winner upon quality terrain. Clearly, this is a guy who doesn't want to be the most prolific, only the best - an aligmment with the thoughts of Coore and Crenshaw.  

Pleased to hear that the Moonah Course at The National Golf Club, Cape Schanck, rates a seven/ seven and a half on the Doak Scale.
This is high praise indeed for the Greg Norman Design. The Shark would be tickled if he happened to read that.

The National Golf Club is planning to  extend its complex from 3 courses (only) to 6! The vote is due shortly, and a straw poll suggests it will get up: 80/20.

It is mooted that Tom and his Australian design partner, Michael Clayton, are in the running for one of the National contracts. It is aslo mooted that Norman may be designing an 18 hole par-three course, as part of the six.

It is very much hoped that Tom's project at Barnbougle Dunes goes ahaead; the land is fantastic and worthy of Tom's gentle hand, and erudite mind.

Slag:
Barnbougle Dunes is only half way around the world! Not far when you say it quickly. Good luck with the new charts.

[Geoff_Shackelford]

Tom,
Amazing that you are estimating 700,000 yards of dirt moving on your Texas project, that is probably more than all of your previous projects combined? Can you tell us some of the ways you plan to utilize or move this pretty massive amount in a way that is effective, attractive and different than what we are used to seeing (bowled fairways, elevated tees, etc...)?  Also, how is the process going to work? One of the things I'm learning more and more is that a many neat bunker shapes, bumps, and interesting design features happen by accident, so I'm wondering if in the massive earth moving you won't be looking for similar kinds of "mistakes" that turn out to be interesting land features worth keeping? Or is that impossible with a dirt moving contractor who is trying to stick to plans?

Geoff

[Craig_Rokke]

T Doak:

When courses (especially public) add a second 18, they often contrast the design styles to appeal to a broader audience. Obviously, Stonewall doesn't need
to do that, but do you anticipate any
major differences between the 2 18's ? Will the lengths be similar?  Similar native grasses bordering the fairways? Green sizes?

[Ran Morrissett]

I thoroughly enjoyed Beechtree, in large part because the Green Keeper there, Russ Davis, has the course playing PERFECTLY and thus, Doak and Hepner's intended strategies are fully in play. Too bad Russ can't commute to High Pointe as well!

Tee shots are literally bouncing down the fairways and the ground game is a distinct option. Hitting a little hooded 5 iron from 145 yards on the 5th was a blast and perhaps my favorite shot on the course.

Tim, I agree the 14th is the most visually pleasing on the course and I only wish that I had spent more time on the 17th to fully appreciate the different ways the hole can play. I would also agree that the one shotters are the weak link but that is strictly relative to everything else that the design offers.

Also, while the bunkering on the 8th is excellent, the bunkering on the other two par fives is also extremely well done as it makes the second shot very interesting indeed.

The routing of holes 3,5, and 10 makes outstanding use of the ground's general slope - I don't ever recall seeing three holes that use the same broad slope in a more varied manner.

I didn't go see Bulle Rock.

Cheers,

[Tom_Doak]

Ran -- Glad you enjoyed Beechtree.  You forgot to mention all the fallaway greens -- a personal record for me.

Craig -- We've done a routing for Stonewall II, but we're still deciding how to make it different, other than allowing for carts.  We HAVE decided to plant evergreens to vary the look, and there will be less long native rough.  I'm not sure what bunker style we'll use yet.  One thing we will do again is the small greens -- we don't get many chances to employ them on other projects because of the traffic.

Geoff -- Since we're starting with an almost dead-flat site, we are hoping we can simply fly the topo at the end and see how much earth was moved -- which would give us the freedom to make changes on the fly without worrying about change orders.  We'll see how it works.  I wish the 700,000 cubic yards were as much as it sounds -- by the time we make the place drain and build a berm around two sides of the property, we don't have enough left over to build any mountains!

George -- I can't imagine what I would have done at Pacific Dunes in 1989.  I do know I've gotten better at building bunkers over the past twelve years, so it probably benefits from that.

[Paul Turner]

Rich

I don't know if you have Tom Doak's book.  But the photo of Halifax GC on page 191 looks very promising: holes routed around some fine natural features in a broad valley.

As for the other photos of Mack's northern England work.  The 17th green at Headingly looks marvelous and Reddish Vale could be worthwhile too.  But Cleckheaton doesn't look very inspired.

I've also walked the best parts of Cavendish which Tom highlights; it's definitely worth a stop if you're in the beautiful Buxton area.

[ForkaB]

Thakns Paul

I'll check this out next time I see my pals, one of which has the 17th at Halifax named after himself or one of his ancestor's (Baggot's Leap).  Can't wait to find out about that one!

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