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John_Sheehan

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« on: September 06, 2001, 09:13:00 AM »
I have long been a fan of Frank Lloyd Wright's architecture and his philosophy of design. Having once more been reading some of his autobiography recently, and having also been reading John Conley's thread on "Golf course critics and movie critics," it struck me how Wright's ideas of what he called "organic architecture" are in harmony with what most of us here appreciate in GCA. It also struck me how (IMHO)Wright would have reacted very similarly to the lack of "soul" that we see in the cookie cutter designs, and CCFAD's that are so prevalent in GCA today. He would have railed against their artificiality and their lack of spiritual soul.

Mostly Wright seemed to believe that a well designed building (golf course?) should have a transformative spiritual effect on those who lived or visited there. In John Conley's thread, there are references to exposing the "unwashed masses" to ideas, art, and other vestiges of culture.  It struck me that what separates the experience of "viewing a Picasso or a Rembrandt versus a Leroy Nieman" is that transformative spiritual effect.  Cypress Point, Mid Ocean, Pebble Beach, Pasatiempo - and a few other great courses I have been fortunate to play, had that transformative effect on me.

Here are some quotes from Wright, and others, on Wright's work and philosophy:

“Wright considered architecture to be the master art form. The art form that subordinated all other art forms because contained within it were the visual arts,…sculpture, any kind of aesthetic experience could be brought within a building and in creating that building that building would house a complete aesthetic experience of the universe which for Wright is a complete spiritual experience of the universe. And so, what he tried to do was to bring in all of these elements, control them all, subordinate them to his vision as a way of creating a perfect realization of beauty and his vision of what it would be like to be to live within that beautiful space would be that it would be genuinely transformative. It would make the people different who inhabited that space. And so, his vision is of an aesthetics which serves all of human spiritual life.”—William Cronon, Historian

"The philosophy of organic architecture was present consistently in his body of work and the scope of its meaning mirrored the development his architecture. The core of this ideology was always the belief that architecture has an inherent relationship with both its site and its time.
When asked in 1939 if there was a way to control a client’s potentially bad taste in selecting housing designs for his Broadacre City project, Wright replied, “Even if he wanted bad ones he could find only good ones because in an organic architecture, that is to say an architecture based upon organic ideals, bad design would be unthinkable.” In this way, the question of style was not important to Frank Lloyd Wright. A building was a product of its place and its time, intimately connected to a particular moment and site—never the result of an imposed style.

"Nature is my manifestation of God. I go to nature every day for inspiration in the day's work. I follow in building, the principles which nature has used in its domain." –Frank Lloyd Wright

"Form follows function -  that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual union." --Frank Lloyd Wright

And FINALLY (sorry for the length of this post!), here is one especially for Tommy N  

“It’s a contemptible retrogressive architecture that we practice domestically in this country now and to my mind, it’s mysterious that that we couldn’t have followed in the Wright course. That we couldn’t have developed something as new as...what it was when Frank developed it... And the plantation house and the English Tudor manor house and all these houses being built in our suburbs are ...false to the intention of the families living in them and they’re false to the hopes of the people who will grow up in them. They don’t bear any relationship to the aspirations that a contemporary American citizen should feel about themselves. Done for. Gone. And the architectural profession consents to it. Foments it, aids it. That’s contemptible.”—Brendan Gill, Writer


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2001, 05:00:00 PM »
IMHO, FLW would have been incapable of designing a playable golf course.  I doubt that he would have any interest in the game, if not contempt for it and those who play it. I suspect that his natural inclination would be to build a 13 hole course about 2100 yards long with only prairie native areas, rockwall outcroppings, scads of trees, and 1000sqft greens that would platform over streams or precipices, declaring that the game was traditionally played all wrong anyway.  And, he'd probably grow weary of the construction and abandon it in mid construction...  I thing a miniture golf course designed by him would be a more suitable project.  My opinion, I could be wrong.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

aclayman

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2001, 05:41:00 PM »
John- Having grown up in Chicago I was constantly exposed to FLW and his influences. The truth is that once he stole the clients from Sullivan he was off and running. An ego out of control in a very controlled time. His personal life was as low as his fame was high. If he were around today and contributing to this site he might have an approval rating slighly higher than Cong. Condit.

I do get what you mean though, about the similarity to a prevailing "natural" theme here on GCA. But there are probably some fundemental differences that would lose in any serious close comparison. My initial feeling is that building on the land is completely different than building with the land. So, the size and scope of projects, are by naure, completly different.
I do think that the simplicity of design is not really what FLW was known for, or for that matter, his detail oriented employer, Louis Sullivan.


T_MacWood

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2001, 06:27:00 PM »
I don't know if F.L. Wright could have designed a golf-course, I know he was very capable of designing a very liveable home. You make it sound as if he was an extremely unorthodox and impracticle as a designer - I would disagree with that assessment, creative yes, impracticle no. He did design numerous clubhouses and included golf and other recreation within his Broadacre City design.

Adam
He did not steal Sullivan's clients. The only thing Wright is guilty of taking from Sullivan was his immense talent. Sullivan designed large public buildings, Wright concentrated on homes. Hell, Wright even designed Sullivan's summer home.

You might want to check his design in Carmel, the Walker House, if you are uncertain of his ability to design with the land. What's the difference between building on the land and with the land? As far as his personal indescressions, he had an affair and married a clients wife - I'm not sure if any successful golf-architects, artists or writers have ever done the same.

Its difficult to say if he wouldn't have been a successful golf-architect, but he was a creative genius and great advocate of working with nature, he also had much in common with the golf-architects of his era in that they had common influences.


Tony Ristola

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If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2001, 11:57:00 PM »
PBS had an excellent documentary on FLW, and has an excellent web site www.pbs.org/flw  with audio and video of the man himself and those who studied under him.

I found his Imperial Hotel project in Tokyo quite incredible, a project he personally spent six years overseeing.  The results were dramtic in more ways than one.  Unfortunately the hotel was razed in 1968.   The following illustrates his genius in Tokyo.  

Dear Mr. Wright,

The first shock was enough to lay many buildings flat, and ... the second shock easily leveled what the first had loosened...Fire billowed from every house and those people who survived the crush and sought places of safety out in the open were killed by the smoke and scorching hot air, roasted by hundreds and thousands.

All steel buildings proved fatal, enough to show that our architects were fools.

What a glory it is to see the Imperial standing amidst the ashes of a whole city!

Glory to you!


Sincerely,
Arata Endo
(Sab Shimono)

Six years in Tokyo producing not only beauty, but an obvious structural marvel.  Could it be his time on-site during construction leading the crew was the deciding factor as it is with golf course architecture?  

RJ:  I disagree with your take, though I'm certainly, but looking at his structures and what I've read I believe he would have been a great golf course architect. (1) He would have known the game, and clearly known where the line between great golf a gimmickery was. (2) He certainly didn't fight nature, though he did push materials to the limit. (3) He put a considerable amount of thought (mental labour) into the structures and would mentally draw the structures before putting pencil to paper. (4) He wouldn't have damaged his reputation by going overboard.  He would have been a great leader, a great fighter and by his actions would have pushed other architects to elevate their standards, though I do agree he could have become bored with this industry quickly, like George Thomas Jnr.

I hope the Fallingwater section has the audio or video from the documentary where his associate explains how the project was drawn. If not, a quick rundown:  FLW received a call from Mr. Kaufmann saying he would be at their offices in three hours to view the drawings.  FLW said no problem, but at the time of the call there were no drawings. He gathered a few underlings, and went to work producing full scale plans.  The wonder of one associate was he had every rock placed in perfect detail... from his brain.  The plans were completed before Mr. Kaufmann walked through the door.

I think FLW would have been a great defender of golf's heritage, but would have pushed the design envelope, and the materials envelope, and you would never have gotten a repeat design.  Would he have been Desmond Muirhead or a Golden Ager?  I'd go with the latter, and if he did introduce artificial features they would have fit the environment and would have been unrecognizable as such.  I doubt he would have built a waterfall on any course in So.Cal., and would have pioneered the method for turning the LA River running through Bel Air CC into a natural looking feature.


Rick Wolffe

  • Karma: +0/-0
If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2001, 04:32:00 AM »
Interesting debate.

There is an old saying in Architecture that says an Architect is responsible to the public and an Artist is responsible to himself.

Building Architecture is a profession that carries the highest possible legal standard in designing structures that accomodate people and property.

Is not a golf course architect more akin to an Artist or should I say landscape artist.   Do they carry the same degree of responsibility and legal liability?  Although, I presume there are certain safety standards that need to be incorporated in the design of sound golf courses.

Certainly the core learned disciplines of the building architect and the golf course architect are very different indeed -- structural engineering verus civil engineering, etc., etc.


Jeff_McDowell

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2001, 05:28:00 AM »
I think he would have designed great courses that fit into the landscape for the sole reason that he took the time to look at nature and had the unusual ability to see the uniqueness of a site.

And if his courses weren't great the clubhouses would be spectacular.


RobertWalker

  • Karma: +0/-0
If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2001, 05:50:00 AM »
The Earthquake resiting features of the Imperial Hotel were flawed at best. The reason the Imperial survived was a fluke. The fault line and tremors did not affect this area of Tokyo as it did in others.

John_Sheehan

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2001, 06:42:00 AM »
Running out the door, so I don't have much time right now.  Will post more later.

RJDaley & Adam-
I don't condemn or condone FLW's personal choices or his personality. Fact is, our beloved Doctor MacKenzie was also shunned by his own club for years after his own divorce and personal choices. It was popular then, and the trend seems to continue, to bash Wright for both his personal life, and the alleged "impracticality" of his design. What I am speaking about is Wright's philosophy of design, and how it closely reflects the values we cherish here on GCA.

Consider this:
-He believed: in creating buildings (golf courses?) that fit naturally into their surroundings.
-that nature was the greatest inspiration
-that buildings (green complexes?) should never be built on the top of a hill, but rather on the "brow" (see Geo.C.Thomas's philosophy, and its similarity)
-He spent considerable time in what MacKenzie and others called "mental labor" in design, before ever laying pencil to paper.
-As others pointed out, he spent time on site, and committed every tree, rock, and elevation change to memory. These were all considered taken into consideration in his design, to make sure that the structure fit naturally into its landscape.

More than any other famous architect, Wright is known for his private buildings (homes), not his public ones.  Because of the moral outrage of the public over his personal indiscretions, Wright was given very few public commissions.  At a time when America was rebuilding at a frenzied pace, lesser architects were given the plum assignments. (sound at all familiar?) Here was a mind that many consider the greatest architect of all time, yet we have a very small legacy of design from this wonderful resource.

Will tune in and write more when I return later today.  Gotta make a living!


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2001, 06:53:00 AM »
If FLW did the golf design equivalent on greens to his success with roofs, they wouldn't drain.  If you ever tried to walk around in one of his pre-fab homes he designed for Marshall Erdman you would think he was designing for a family of pigmies.  I'm thinking that Ted Robinson has his inspiration for waterfalls from FLWs Fallingwater house in PA.  Great functional idea there, a river running through your house built in an area that experiences harsh winters.  Must be a real healthy environment.  

In fairness, I agree that FLW had his triumphs, but I think he had some real clunkers along the way.  I just don't see how he would have been intune with anything related to the playing of the game of golf.  

Ironically, in 1988 I was considering trying to put together a group to buy the complex in Spring Green WI., that included the RTJ Sr., Springs Golf Course that included 1700 acres of land, and the Spring Green Restaurant, a FLW designed eatery that is on a back sleugh of the Wisconsin River.  You wouldn't believe the rediculously low price that whole package could have been had for.  BTW, the kitchen-service area was thought to be poorly designed and the roof reportedly leaked badly...

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tommy_Naccarato

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2001, 07:33:00 AM »
John, great quote!

I'm going to list some names and their respected fields here:

Frank Lloyd Wright-Architect
Andrei Bartijoiak (Sp)-Winemaking
Alice Waters-Chef
Orson Wells-Movie maker
H.G. Wells-Author/visionary
Sid Gilliam-Football Savant
Nikola Tesla-Inventor
Evelyn Osborn-My second grade teacher
Bill Coore-Golf Course Architect

What do each of these have in common?

It is quite obvious that they are the people I think are the best in their fields and are gifted indviduals in their own right.

Could each of them actually perform each others talents? Well, I know for a fact that Orson Wells couldn't cook, but like me could eat as he spent the last years of his life hanging out at Ma Maison, where Wolfgang Puck was head chef before he left and started Spago. (Before he commercialized himself)

The point is that each of these talented individuals have/had a way with their art or abilities to create, and to think that it could be carried over is a little more to ask when considering their given talents. This doesn't mean that they couldn't just as easy learn the passion for any paticular talent; they just have a way of sticking to what they know best and following their inspriations of creativity.


George Pazin

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If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2001, 07:44:00 AM »
I rarely get to comment on courses here, since I haven't played too many, but I have toured Falling Water. There were a lot of things that, on initial inspection, seemed weird, but on reflection, made great sense. The hallways were VERY narrow & the bedrooms rather small, both leading to a rather cramped feeling. However, if you think about it, how much time do you spend in the hallway, or even your bedroom, for the matter? The common areas are very open & spacious, as well as private open air areas outside of each bedroom. All in all, I would say an unbelievably efficient use of space.

As for the waterfall, I have a hard time equating articial falls on golf courses with a home that is perched over a natural waterfall. Chalk this home up as the number one example of what the enviro wackos would not let anyone do anymore. What a shame.

The single most unbelievable thing about the home to me is that the Kaufmann family would donate it to a historical society, at least in a usage sense(don't know who legally owns it). If my grandfather had had FLW build this for our family, you guys would never have heard of me...

Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

RobertWalker

  • Karma: +0/-0
If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2001, 07:59:00 AM »
This is  a question for Bill Kittleman, or maybe Bill Kittleman is the answer?

T_MacWood

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2001, 08:04:00 PM »
RJ
Very generous of you to acknowldge he had his triumphs - I'm sure he would have appreciated your appraisal of his eighty year career. If I recall you weren't real high on MacKenzie's work either before visting CD, so I guess he's in good company.

Wright was famous for his inovations --  radiant heating, flat roofs, Usonian housing, cantilevers, modular methods, standardized dimensions ... some were more successful than others. I suppose you can focus on the inovations that were less successful.

I don't believe he fabricated the waterfall a la T.Robinson at Fallingwater and wasn't it strictly a summer home. I've visited the site and it seemed healthy enough to me, in fact it was very appealing.

I think you will find, that no one built kitchens like we find today - very small and sparse. Greene and Greene, Maybeck, Wm.Price, Gill, Voysey, Lutyens all built kitchen that do not stand up to modern comparison.

It appears you have softened your stance that FLW would be incapable of designing a playable golf course, just one that doesn't drain well. Why wouldn't he have been in tune with anything like playing a game of golf? Is there a sport that is more in tune with nature; nature in so many diverse habitiats?


RJ D

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2001, 08:18:00 PM »
Yeah we wouldn't have heard of you George, cause you would have died of pnuemonia in your little bitty damp and cold nursery, or would have fallen and been swept away in the river while toddling around in your living room.    I'd donate it too for a great tax write-off and because I probably wouldn't want to spend the kind of bucks it would take to maintain it from the weather, rain on the roof, and heat the darn thing.  The pre-fab Erdman house that used to be in my beat in Madison was so bad that it was uninhabitable.  It was abandoned and a rat trap and place where kids would go to smoke, drink and hang out.  The roof was caving in, the halls were so narrow that I honestly had to turn sideways to get down them (when I was 50 pounds lighter than now!)  

I believe the FLW design-concept Monona Terrace Convention Center is something of real beauty in Madison.  However, it is not entirely the original design of FLW.  It was significantly modified by Talliesin Associates to conform to the modern use and needs.  Conceptually, it was and is indeed beautiful, but not the original more "impractical" building FLW conceived in 1952, IMHO.  The building sits on a space across from the city-county building where I worked out of as a PO.  After a busy night shift, I would often wait there parked in my squad car facing the east rising sun over Lake Monona and finish up reports waiting to go 10-42.  That space and view is one of the most moving for me that I can think of.  I'm glad that the marriage of the building (representing the peoples civic space) and lake (nature) retains that moving aura because it is a special place in my memory...


RJ_Daley

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If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2001, 09:09:00 AM »
Tom Mac, "You are correct sir" about some of my skeptical comments about impressions I had of Dr Mac., based on what pics I saw of CD.  Particularly, I remember saying that #8 seemed like it wasn't the great hole others raved about because it appeared that all you had was a drive down left or flirt with right side rough, then a lay-up into hillside, to finally pitch to a green where you only had one possibility to hold the green because of the front slope.  I think I said that it seemed to be one dimensional and without many options.  After playing it, I think I liked it much more because that one way is sort of thrilling, but will stick with the view that it is a very one-way to go sort of hole.  But, it is a naturally sited hole that blends in perfectly to the terrain that was given.  I was really impressed with #13.  While I got lucky on 11 compared to the hosing my playing partners took with not being able to hold or putt the green, I was able to stick a 3 iron just past the pin and it only rolled back towards the front to the frog hair where I was able to putt right up to and short of the hole for a tap in par.  The other fellows didn't get the luck I did.  The reason I am boring you with this recap of CD is to somehow relate it to the design of Mac (in his time and under the maintanence that was possible then) that the design and contours fit naturally with the land and were more playable then than now.  8, 11, 17 were belended with what nature gave, but aren't as playable now with modern maintenance.  I think that both Mac and FLW were men intune with natural assets.  But, Mac was a GCA and could relate them in context with his time to great design that was functional and enjoyable related to his understanding of the game.  I think that FLW might have been more paying tribute to nature in his work, but forgot some of the functional/practical aspects in favor of idealistic notions.  

As far as kitchens go, I don't think that the times demanded smaller impractical kitchens at all.  Have you ever seen the old German Black Kitchens or Swedish kitchens that were typical of the times?  The kitchens in the real world were very important right up through WWII.  FLW's lifestyle may have been oriented towards a diminishment of importance to domestic needs as I don't think that is where he and his inteligensia protoge's spent too much time.  I would perish if I had to live with and rely on an Erdman FLW Pre-fab home kitchen.  

Again, having been around the periphery of the milieu of the FLW cultists that seem thick around the Madison area, I just can't imagine the man or his following getting too worked up about the bourgeoisie game of golf.  I could see them protesting the violation of any site in nature, prairie or woodland, where a golf course might be designed.  I'll be interested as to what his idea was of the siting of a golf course in the idealistic Broadacre City, and have been unable to find a drawing on the internet to depict that.  Can you help with a link?

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2001, 09:18:00 AM »

Tommy_Naccarato

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2001, 09:30:00 AM »
Here is a link to what I feel is a great FLW site that is an index of FLW's work.
http://www.cypgrp.com/flw/index.html

(If I remember wright,* the site belongs to an architect who amassed the information and put it in web form.)

*No pun intended!


RJ D

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2001, 09:33:00 AM »
In reference to the article provided by Craig;  do you think Doak will have to spend that much time and money "restoring" Pasatiempo or Montecito Valley Club?  I don't think Dr. Mac., designed that much flaw into his designs.  Although the severity of the green slopes has not been able to match the advancement of turf quality and mowing height.  In Dr Mac's case, his design was well in tune with the natural assets, and the function of the golf courses were intune with his deep understanding of the game and how the broad crossection of player skills could enjoy it fully.  FLW, seemed like he really didn't consider the practicality and function beyond some narrow notion of his own ideals.  

Tommy_Naccarato

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2001, 10:00:00 AM »
For Robert Walker:

FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT'S IMPERIAL HOTEL: A SEISMIC RE-EVALUATION
By Robert King Reitherman
California Universities for Research in Earthquake Engineering (CUREe)

[Note: This paper appeared in the Proceedings of the Seventh World Conference on Earthquake Engineering, September 8-13, 1980, Istanbul, Turkey, volume 4. A version of this paper was also published in AIA Journal, June 1980. The photographs are of the salvaged facades of the Imperial Hotel after its demolition in 1968 which were reconstructed as part of Meiji-Mura Museum, a short distance from Nagoya, Japan. The paper and photographs are used here by permission of the author.]

SUMMARY
A technical reassessment of the story of the Imperial Hotel and the 1923 Great Kanto earthquake is overdue, and some of the following topics have not previously been scrutinized thoroughly: seismic separation joints, "waiter's tray" box system, short pile foundation system, cavity wall construction, vertical distribution of material, fire-following-earthquake preventive measures, masonry anchorage details, structural/non-structural isolation. With our hindsight, some of the building's aseismic features may now seem of dubious validity, but the Imperial Hotel remains a rare example of a designer's thorough attempt to integrate architecture and engineering into a comprehensive aseismic design strategy.

HOTEL STANDS UNDAMAGED AS MONUMENT OF YOUR GENIUS. HUNDREDS OF HOMELESS PROVIDED BY PERFECTLY MAINTAINED SERVICE.
CONGRATULATIONS. OKURA

This dramatic radio telegram from Tokyo by Baron Okura, the key financial promoter of the just completed Imperial Hotel, was the first word to reach the U.S. concerning the September 1, 1923 Great Kanto earthquake: the Imperial Hotel earthquake legend had just sprung to life full grown. As one of Wright's biographers has noted, "The publication of this message in the newspapers was the start of the widely believed and printed myth that the Imperial Hotel was the only building in Tokyo to withstand the earthquake. This however, was far from the truth." (1)

If one were to choose the building whose performance in the 1923 earthquake had the greatest influence on architectural historians and journalists and therefore the mass audience, it would no doubt be the Imperial Hotel. But if one were to look at the structural performance which was most noted and discussed among engineers, or to single out the examples which had the greatest effect on both the development of the state-of-the-art of seismic design and on the evolution of the modern aseismic building code, then the Tokyo buildings designed by Dr. Tachu Naito would be the obvious choice.

The family tree of our contemporary seismic state-of-the-art can be traced back through Naito (and Suyehiro, Sano, Imamura, Omori, Milne, and others in Japan) and to Italy and elsewhere in the latter half of the nineteenth century, but Wright is not part of this lineage. The Imperial Hotel case stands outside this evolutionary history.


Extent Of Damage
The Imperial Hotel experienced some non-structural and structural damage in the 1923 earthquake: the dining room floor bulged and required cutting and shimming of concrete columns to re-level it, and fans, kitchen equipment, lights, partitions, and other similar non-structural items were damaged. The insurance companies' damage rating system used a five-point scale. The Imperial Hotel was listed in the category of second-best performance, or light damage. There were other large buildings, which were rated in the first category. (2) The Tokyo Building Inspection Department's estimates, which included fire as well as earthquake damage, list about 19% of the city's brick buildings in the undamaged category, and a little over 20% of the steel and reinforced concrete buildings in this category. (3) Typical, second-hand contemporary press accounts that the building "withstood the earth stresses far better than other large buildings in Tokyo" were thus in error, and the recently made statement that "Frank Lloyd Wright's finest hour was when his Imperial Hotel in Tokyo stood while others fell" might be more accurately re-phrased to say "while some others fell, (and while some others performed better)." Imamura's contemporary intensity map of Tokyo placed the Imperial Hotel in the second most intense category out of four levels of shaking. A good deal of Tokyo was within this category or the highest level of intensity. While these basic facts may not be surprising to Japanese readers, there is a considerable amount of misconception in other countries. The building's structural performance, under these circumstances, might be termed good, but not outstanding. If settlement had not occurred, (and it is settlement which the contemporary reports blame for the structural damage to concrete columns and floors) the building would apparently have performed quite well.


Foundation System
Many people have heard that the building's foundation system somehow isolated the building from the earthquake's vibrations, and that this was responsible for good performance. The foundation system was certainly quite novel: nine inch diameter tapering concrete piles only eight feet long were set about every two feet along the length of the walls, in pairs or threes side by side. About eight feet of soft surface soil overlaid about 75 feet of softer alluvium and ground water extended to within about two feet of the surface. "Because of the wave movements, deep foundations like long piles would oscillate and rock the structure... That mud seemed a merciful provision - a good cushion to relieve the terrible shocks. Why not float the building upon it? - a battleship floats on salt water." (4) Julius Hoto, the project's Japanese structural engineer, agreed. "These piles, tying the heavy superstructure of the taller buildings to the solid earth below, transmitted the full intensity of shocks." (5) Hoto's and Wright's attraction to the idea of a "monolithic mass resting on a soft flexible cushion" is perhaps not itself theoretically invalid. However, it does lead to the related problems of providing adequate vertical support to prevent settlement and of making an entire building truly act monolithically. The "soft story" concept as applied to soil materials is as dubious and problematic as its application to the ground story of a building. It is likely that the underlying mud, rather than being "a merciful provision - a good cushion," was rather an amplifier of the ground motion. However, at the same time that it would have increased the amplitude, it would have affected the frequency content of the motions, filtering out the short frequency and transmitting a predominantly long period motion to the surface. The Imperial Hotel was demolished in 1968, amid worldwide but ineffectual protests. Probably the prime reason for the economic obsolescence of the hotel was its low-rise, low-density design and its high-priced, central Tokyo location. A reporter also noted that the owners, the Inumarus had cited the fact that "the structure was impossible to repair, and was slowly sinking into the mud." (6) The central 7-story portion of the complex settled two feet in the earthquake. From 1955-1965 it sank five inches. Total settlement at the rear of the central section in the 45-year life of the structure was three feet - eight inches. (7) Settlement was definitely a major problem. In Bradshaw's opinion, "When one sifts through the 'waiter carrying trays,' 'the earth waves,' 'cheese foundation,' etc., one finds that what the man did was drive piles. It's as simple as that... [another] misconception is that the choice of foundations [very shallow piles] was even a wise one." (8) The dining room floor structure was damaged because of this settlement. Although soil/structure interaction and local geological effects are subjects about which we will no doubt learn much more in the future, at this point it appears ironically 1ikely that the design feature which Wright and other have primarily credited with the success of the Imperial Hotel's 1923 performance, the short pile foundation system, was in fact the probable primary cause of the damage experienced in 1923 from the earthquake and in subsequent years due to ongoing settlement. Taller buildings in Tokyo, which used deep pile foundations (and which probably tuned in more to the ground motion due to their height) suffered less damage, indicating that the usual foundation design method was a sound approach.


"The Waiter's Tray."
Wright stated: "... a construction was needed where floors would not be carried between walls, because subterranean disturbances might move the walls and drop-the floors. Why not then carry the floors as a waiter carries his tray on upraised arm and fingers at the center - balancing the load. All supports centered under the floor slabs like that instead of resting the slabs on the walls at their edges as is usually the case? This meant the cantilever, as I had found by now..." (9) Floors spanned transversely over a pair of columns in the middle, which straddled the double-loaded corridor, and the floors were supported by bearing walls at the exterior. Hoto thought that the Imperial Hotel's cantilever design appeared "new by virtue of the originality of architectural design" not by its structural behavior. Wright was addressing a major recurring problem in masonry design: how to connect floors to walls. Wright's reasoning that extending the slabs continuously over the wall, rather than "leaving them to grasp at the sides of walls" was at least theoretically valid, but this leaves several practical issues concerning chords, wall-floor shear transfer, and bond beam function left unanswered. Some old masonry school buildings in Tokyo were described by Milne twenty years earlier to have had wood roofs which "floated" upon the walls, to allow seismic movement. These approaches, however, have been universally rejected by mainstream seismic design since then, which has emphasized tying the parts together.


Bearing Wall Construction And Masonry Anchors
The bearing walls were composed of an exterior wythe of solid bricks, an interior wythe of hollow patterned bricks, and a solidly filled cavity of concrete. Was the concrete reinforced? In a letter to John Freeman in 1931 Wright specifically said that there was no steel reinforcement in the concrete, while according to Hoto, the walls were built by "layering up an outer and inner shell of brick, filling in between, as the work progressed, with concrete and laying reinforcing steel into this concrete, thus making exceedingly strong monolithic walls." (10) It is symptomatic of this building's story that there are conflicting reports concerning such a basic point. As Shinjiro Kirishiki notes in his attempted reconstruction of the financial, construction process and other aspects of the building, many records have been lost either in the 1923 earthquake and fire, or in the bombings of 1945 (in which the Hotel was partially burned), and "several points still remain vague." (11) According to Berg, "... A construction feature that received less comment [than the short pile foundation] from the architect but which seems to me to have been a greater contributor to the success of the structure was the exterior wall construction. The walls consisted of a double shell of brick, each shell just a single brick in thickness, but with the void space between them carefully filled with poured concrete. In principle this is not greatly different from the filled-cavity masonry walls required in California schools today." (12) Wright had also written that because the lava stone used as trim was "so easily worked I could hollow it out and use it for forms into which the concrete slabs, cantilevers, or walls were cast and the steel reinforcement be tied into the material from beneath and all cast solidly together with the concrete. Wherever there was a chance for a flaked off piece, copper was used in connection with it, to insure it." (13) Since the Imperial Hotel was perhaps the most profusely ornamented masonry building in Tokyo, the good performance of appendages is notable. Reportedly only 2 pieces of garden sculpture fell down.


Reinforced Concrete Frame Design
Hoto stated that although he designed the reinforced concrete slabs and transverse frames for Wright in conformance with the code then in effect in Chicago, "he tells me now that, in building, my computations were disregarded and that much lighter sections were everywhere substituted, making in effect a design which eliminates all the strength usually provided for the live loads. In this connection, the writer would like to comment that this reduction was entirely logical..." (14) Since early code provisions dealing with reinforced concrete for vertical loads were sometimes unduly conservative, Hoto may have been right concerning the prudence of Wright's downward adjustment of his calculations, especially since the construction supervision was apparently quite thorough. It makes the story of the Imperial Hotel even more surprising; however, since the architect disregarded his structural engineer's calculations for concrete member design, used an innovative foundation system, and otherwise took responsibility for the building's structure. The Imperial Hotel illustrates both strengths and weaknesses of the strong-willed master designer or masterbuilder approach to architecture. Contemporary team design has obvious advantages, but perhaps it is not generally recognized that it too has weaknesses: often the team approach leads to merely "satisfactory" or "unobjectionable" compromises rather than to superior innovative solutions derived from a strong-minded adherence to first principles.


Configuration
The vertical arrangement of the building's exterior is an interesting example of the complementary interaction of architecture and engineering. "The outside walls were spread wide, thick and heavy, at the base, growing thinner and lighter toward the top. Whereas Tokyo buildings were all top-heavy, the center of gravity was kept low against the swinging quake movements and the wall slopes were made an aesthetic feature of the design." (15) The walls were perforated with small windows in the first two stories, while the more abundant openings in the third story reduce the material and turn the walls into closely spaced piers.

"Flexibility"
Wright wrote "we solved the problem of the menace of the quake by concluding that rigidity couldn't be the answer, and that flexibility and resiliency must be the answer... Why fight the quake? Why not sympathize with it and out wit it?" (16) When Wright advocated "flexibility" he wasn't actually taking the opposite side of the debate from Tachu Naito, who was the prime spokesman for the "rigidity" argument in the twenties and thirties. Wright's method of creating a "flexible structure instead of a foolish rigid one" was to "divide the buildings into parts. Where the parts were necessarily more than sixty feet long, joint these parts, clear through floors, walls, footings, and all, and manage the joints in the design." (17) He called the result a "jointed monolith." What is immediately apparent today is that this was an early and thorough use of the seismic separation joint, though this seems not to have been subsequently appreciated. Thus the 500'-long wings did not have to try to act like 500'-long structures. The complex plan (from a seismic viewpoint), with eight major and at least four minor re-entrant corners, was thus merely a concatenation of simple, symmetrical, small rectangles, mostly three stories (plus basement) tall, about 35' x 60' in plan. Their height/ depth ratio of the component structures was close to one, and the shear walls of the perimeter, along with the rigid diaphragms, and with some rigidity added by the interior columns and numerous longitudinal and transverse partitions must have created a stiff, rather than "flexible" structure, in the usual seismic use of the word. The fundamental periods were probably less than one-quarter second. Wright's use of lightweight copper sheet rather than the traditional Japanese tile lightened the roof by a factor of about ten. The use of a light roof further reduced the period of the structure. (Wright had another purpose in mind: "Roof tiles of Japanese buildings have murdered countless thousands of Japanese in upheavals, so a light hand-worked copper roof was planned. Why kill more?") (18) The stiffness probably decreased the amount of non-structural damage, and also probably decreased the dynamic response of the building to the ground motion which, as discussed earlier, could probably be characterized as long period.


Structural/Non-Structural Interaction
Mechanical/electrical riser members hung free of the structure in vertical shafts, and runs were laid in concrete trenches in the basement rather than buried. "Earthquakes had always torn piping and wiring apart where laid in the structure and had flooded or charged the building," Wright wrote. Lead pipes were used and pipe turns were accommodated with sweeping curves rather than small radius right angle bends. "Thus any disturbance might flex and rattle but not break the pipes or wiring." (19) Except for the underwriting industry's concern with the seismic aspects of fire sprinkler plumbing design around the time of World War II, Wright's serious attention to this architectural/ engineering problem remained a rare example in American practice up until at least the 1964 Alaska earthquake, (and thorough examination of the non-structural problem remains the exception, not the rule even today, especially on the part of architects).

Entrance Court Pool
The reflecting pool in the entrance court, which stored roof-collected rain water, functioned as an emergency water supply for bucket brigades following the earthquake when the conflagration swept Tokyo and Yokohama. Fires reached to the very edge of the Imperial Hotel grounds on three sides, but it was not damaged. Surviving the trial by fire was probably more of an accomplishment than surviving the trial by earthquake. Windows were wetted down as the fire approached the vicinity. The pool had an everyday aesthetic role to play as well. In fact, since Wright often used a pool in an entrance court, as in the case of the Coonley House of 1912, one might argue that the pool would have been part of the design even if it had no emergency function to fill.


Conclusions
Though beyond the scope of this paper, it should be briefly noted that this same building was a forerunner in the development of radiant heating, forced air ventilation, and indirect lighting, and even though there is thus a long list of interesting seismic and non-seismic technical innovations involved in the story of the Hotel, it achieved fame and landmark status primarily on the basis of its aesthetic character. While American architect Louis Sullivan's contemporary writing on the Imperial Hotel contain inaccuracies, he was quite perceptive in calling the work "thought-built." Although Wright's accounts sometimes sacrifice engineering accuracy to poetic license, his statement that "the plans were made so that all architectural features were practical necessities" is more than simply self-publicizing rhetoric. Whether practicalities are antecedently considered and then used to determine the aesthetic aspects, or whether practicalities are fitted into pre-conceived design concepts is perhaps of minor significance. The important question is whether or not the two sets of concerns are thoroughly integrated. Some of the innovative seismic design aspects for which the building is known, such as the foundation system and "waiter's tray" floor system may now seem flawed, while other features never given much attention at the time or subsequently are now state-of-the-art: the use of seismic separation joints, structural/ non-structural interaction, multi-hazard design to protect against fire as well as earthquake, filled cavity bearing wall construction, appendage anchorage, vertical mass and resistance proportions. It is generally true that a great building, upon closer inspection, is great for a variety of reasons, and perhaps it is also true that upon closer inspection the particular facts are almost never as simple as they at first appeared.


ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
Portions of this research were conducted as part of "Building Configuration And Seismic Design," a National Science Foundation - funded study by Building Systems Development. Charles Scawthorn, Christopher Arnold, and Eric Elsesser, were quite helpful in reviewing the manuscript and suggesting sources.


REFERENCES
1. Farr, F., 1961. Frank Lloyd Wright. New York: Scribner. p. 169
2. Bradshaw, R., January 1961, letter to the editor, Architectural Record, p. 10.

3. Clay Products Institute Of California, 1929, Earthquakes And Building Construction, p. 32.

4. Wright, F.L., 1955, An American Architecture. New York: Horizon Press. p. 150.

5. Hoto, J., "Imperial Hotel," Architectural Record, p. 121.

6. Dunhill, P., May 1968, "Requiem For A Masterpiece," Architectural Forum, P. 73.

7. Kirishiki, S., January-February 1968, "The Story Of The Imperial Hotel, Tokyo," Japan Architect, p. 137.

8. Bradshaw, R., January 1961, letter to the editor, Architectural Record, p. 10.

9. Wright, F.L., 1955, An American Architecture, p. 150.

10, Hoto, J., "Imperial Hotel," Architectural Record, p. 121.

11. Kirishiki, S., January-February 1968, "The Story Of The Imperial Hotel, Tokyo."The Japan Architect, p. 137.

12. Berg, G., 1976, "Historical Review Of Earthquakes, Damage, And Building Codes," in William E. Saul and Alain H. Peyrot, editors, Methods Of Structural Analysis. New York: American Society Of Civil Engineers, p. 392.

13. Wright, F.L. 1965, The Work Of Frank Lloyd Wright, p. 135.

14. Hoto, J., "Imperial Hotel," Architectural Record, p. 122.

15. Wright, F.L., 1955, An American Architecture, p. 152.

16. Ibid, p. 149-159.

17. Ibid, p. 152.

18. Ibid, p. 152

19. Ibid, p. 155. In regard to this and other issues discussed above, see also Freeman, J., 1932, Earthquake Damage And Earthquake Insurance, New York: McGraw-Hill Book Co. Chapter IX.



Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2001, 10:01:00 AM »
Now here's a subject I can sink my teeth into. I have spent a lot of time studying Mr. Wright and his works. John S. I generally agree with you. And by the way this topic/thread is one of the reasons why GCA is so great!

Here are some of my thoughts:

Philosphically, FLW was very much like Donald Ross. In the practice of his "organic architecture,"  he liked to marry the house to the site. Rarely did Wright attempt to change the site to fit the house.

When I think of FLW I think of Pete Dye. Wouldn't FLW's curt responses in a "Feature Interview" be much like those from Pete posted on this site? Here's what FLW said of himself. Might now Pete say the same? "Early in life I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical humility. I chose the former and have seen no reason to change"  

There is little doubt that FLW would appreciate the simplicity and scope of Sand Hills, the wildness and naturalness of Pine Valley, and the natural beauty of Cypress Point and Pacific Dunes. He would rail against the trend of golf course home developments.

One can learn much about whether the man would have been a good golf architect from his quotes. Think "golf architecture" as you read these FLW quotes:

"'Think simple'" as my old master used to say - meaning reduce the whole of its parts into the simplest terms, getting back to first principles."

"Mechanization best serves mediocrity"  [OK, I must comment on this one: Very much a walking course designer. No buggies for this man!]

"The mother art is architecture. Without an architecture of our own we have no soul of our own civilization"

"Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature. It will never fail you"

"There is nothing more uncommon than common sense."

"Classicism is a mask and does not reflect transition. How can such a static expression allow interpretation of human life as we know it? A fire house should not resemble a French Chateau, a bank a Greek temple and a university a Gothic Cathedral. All of the isms are imposition on life itself by way of previous education."

"Organic buildings are the strength and lightness of the spiders' spinning, buildings qualified by light, bred by native character to environment, married to the ground."

"A great architect is not made by way of a brain nearly so much as he is made by way of a cultivated, enriched heart."

"Respect the masterpiece. It is true reverence to man. There is no quality so great, none so much needed now."

"Every great architect is -- necessarily -- a great poet. He must be a great original interpreter of his time, his day, his age"
The architect must be a prophet . . . a prophet in the true sense of the term . . . if he can't see at least ten years ahead don't call him an architect"

"An architect's most useful tools are an eraser at the drafting board, and a wrecking bar at the site"

********

Did you know that one of his famous buildings, the Johnson Wax Building in Racine, Wisonsin,  has golf tee columns supporting the roof?
http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-bin/gbi.cgi/Johnson_Wax_Building.html/cid_johnson_wax_002.gbi  

Finally, a couple of vintage FLW quotes for your info:

"Move the table" - Wright's response to a client who phoned him to complain of rain leaking through the roof of the  house onto the dining table.

"A doctor can bury his mistakes, but an architect can only advise his clients to plant vines"

On Marilyn Monroe: "I think Ms. Monroe's architecture is extremely good architecture"

Doug


Twitter: @Deneuchre

T_MacWood

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2001, 08:29:00 AM »
RJ
I'm not familar with the German Black Kitchen, but I am familar with the American/British kitchen and it was relatively small, spartan and manned by servants.

I am not aware of a website dealing with Broadacre city, but I do know of a couple of books, one being 'His Life and His Architecture' (page 222). The Country Club was on the NW perimeter in the highlands near the 'luxury homes' and his own home. He also provided for a stadium, polo fields, and a baseball field.

I now understand your contempt for FLW has more to do with his followers than with the actual quality of his work.


John_Sheehan

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2001, 12:19:00 AM »
Wow.  Where to begin to add to this thread, which has taken on a life of its own.  First, back to basics.

My original point was really a musing over the similarities in design philosophies of one, if not THE greatest architects of all time, Mr. Wright, and those of the GCA’s of both the Golden Age, and more recently, others we as a group seem to admire: Hanse, Doaks, DeVries, Coore/Crenshaw and others (forgive me for not naming everyone!). I am convinced there is a real connection here.  Some elements of similarity are:
1- A respect and admiration for the best designer of all – Nature.
2- A simplicity and elegance of design.
3- A connection with the spiritual, with true art, and with the creative force, that transcends both time and nature, and takes the inhabitant of the shelter (Wright), or the golf course to a place of magic and wonder.
4- An effort to fit the creation to the landscape.
5- An abhorrence of and an aversion to that which is patently artificial, false or out of place with its surroundings.
6- A striving to blend the single elements of design into a fabric, a seamless fabric that appears to fit naturally into the landscape.
7- A belief that form and function are one, joined in what Wright termed “a spritual union.”

In looking at his life’s work, I think it rather providential that Wright’s first public, non-residential commission was a church, Unity Church in Oak Park. It is fitting in many ways for a man who strove, in a career spanning over seventy years, to create spaces which would transport the soul to a higher dimension.  Who among us, loving golf as we do, does not have this same appreciation for great architecture in our own beloved landscape, the golf course?  We think of great courses as shrines, as cathedrals.  I don’t think this is an accident.  A great course inspires us, touches something in the very depths of our souls; it transposes us to a higher plane.

Wright respected the old, and strove for the new.  He thought forcing inappropriate architectural styles into an unreceptive landscape and time was unnatural.  He sought to create a true American style, one which paid its respect, and sought its inspiration from Nature, one that fit naturally into its setting.  Why do we vilify some modern architects, who have no respect for the Golden Age?  Perhaps because we believe that in their arrogance and ignorance we detect a lack of soul, a stubbornness that refuses to understand that disingenuous artifice is not art.

Fallingwater is art.  

RGD, that beautiful creation, that work of poetry follows function.  Fallingwater was never meant to be a year-round residence.  It was a summer home. Your language suggests a contempt for Wright that I frankly am incapable of understanding. He is your kindred spirit in many ways.  That he was great, a genius, a creative force the likes of which we have rarely seen are not even debatable.  They are fact.  

I tell you what – there are literally hundreds of books, films, documentaries, essays by and about FLW.  Pick out any 3 – read, watch or listen to them.  Them come back here and make an assessment of whether his principles of design are not only compatible with what we cherish, but in many ways embrace and expand upon what we love.

Here is a Wright quote for you:

"True ornament is not a matter of prettifying externals. It is organic with the structure it adorns, whether a person, a building, or a park. At its best it is an emphasis of structure, a realization in graceful terms of the nature of that which is ornamented"

And you will tell us that a “Ted Robinson water fall”, artificial, out of place, man-made in the worst sense – these abominations to our sensibilities are what we could have expected from Wright the GCA?  

Not likely.  Not remotely likely.

I have heard all of the arguments about whether the man was practical.  He could not manage money.  He wounded the public’s sense of morality.  His roofs sometimes leaked.  These are facts.

And Donald Ross only designed those crazy upside down saucer greens. Right? I don’t care to be an advocate for Wright – and quite honestly, his legacy does not need my stamp of approval or my defense.  But to dismiss the man so cavalierly without understanding or studying his body of work makes as much sense to me as those who dismiss an architect like Ross because they think all his greens and green complexes were the same.  This is a fallacy that keeps being repeated, so that many accept it as true.

Yes Fallingwater needs repairs. Structural repairs.  After nearly 70 years, a house that pushed the boundaries of technology when it was designed, a house that is revered the world over for its beauty, its symbiotic relationship with its setting, AND its engineering, needs some repairs.

Was Wright a good engineer?  When the Johnson Wax building was being designed, the local authorities would not grant permits for the lily pad support structures (the golf tees, as someone else described them).  A team of crack engineers claimed that there was no possible way these revolutionary structures could support the weight they needed to.  Wright was so sure of his calculations, that without ever testing the structures, and based soley upon his conviction that his engineering knowledge was correct, he called a press conference.  As reporters from around the world watched, Wright had the balls to take the first prototype support, stand it upright, and had a fleet of dump trucks pile load after load of weight onto that support structure.  It reached the weight the engineers had claimed it would fail.  It did not. He kept the trucks coming, loading their cargo onto the support.  It still did not fail.  Finally, only when the weight reached TEN times the alleged destruct point, the support finally did fail.  Wright was not infallible, but he was a hell of an engineer, who constantly pushed the boundaries of what was technically and technologically possible.

Finally, I’ll get the hell out of here with one more quote from Wright.  Again, I believe this speaks volumes about the type of architecture that we GCA fans love:

"Simplicity and repose are the qualities that measure the true value of any work of art"
---Frank Lloyd Wright



RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2001, 05:30:00 AM »
Gentlemen John and Tom,

My words ring of contempt only in your perception.  I would prefer to say that my comments are offered with a measure of skepticism at the BDAW atmosphere that surrounds the life and times and works of FLW.  Tell me which intellectual man who was followed and quoted and wrote as much as FLW did, who can't be quoted by those wishing to extoll ones own ideals or a set of virtues or principles.  Geez, there are people who quote Adolf out of context, and even his words can ring clear to a set of specific commonly held principles.  But, his sum total wasn't obviously worth a crap.

Now please understand this, I am not just waiving a blanket dismissal of FLW, and showing contempt.  I do chose to contemplate some details about his work and style that in my mind are flaws.  By doing so, it seems that such questioning of the great one brings ardent followers to get all upset as if one were criticising a religion or something.  In deed, my experience over 40 years of my memory around Madison WI., has been to watch that very scenario of ardent followers and skeptics clash over the Monona Terrace project.  Perhaps, no other FLW design has evoked such debate, controversy, and bruised feelings.  

As for the quote on ornament, I myself posted that very quote not too long ago in one of our rambling esoteric GCA discussions.  I like to be able to take the good with the bad.  I do recognise FLWs contributions.  But, I also choose to consider his weaknesses or at least his miscalculations.  I have seen some of both his good and bad works.  Had I bought his Spring Green Restaurant along with that RTJ golf course in 1988, I'd have had prominent signage proclaiming it was a FLW building, and a RTJ golf course.  Then I'd have quietly fixed the damn leeky roof, and probably would have had little or nothing to do to remodel the golf course.  I'd have been silently pissed that the guy couldn't even design a functional roof or well layed out service kitchen for the enterprise to be conducted there at the restaurant.  Having to spend that money, would certainly cause me to question the almighty FLW abilities to design for the real world.  Would you stick 11-12 million to fix Falling Water, or expect the government to do it?

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Slag_Bandoon

If Frank Lloyd Wright Had Been a GCA.......
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2001, 02:34:00 PM »
 Frankie was a driven genius with a terrific childhood history of travelling European cities. He was inspired at an early age to see "building" architecture.  

I don't know if he could have made the transission to pure nature scaping.

I do know that he did have a major blind spot when it came to drainage.  A cliche' of a certain GCA is "drainage! drainage! drainage!" but it must be understood before nature can be contoured to man's liking for golf playability.  

Interesting question but I've got to get back to the marathon of Joseph Campbell being interviewed by Bill Moyers. Hey, I've got to see what the whole cosmic culture scene is.

"Luke, I am your framer."  Tom Fazio in  Star Wars.    


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