[T_MacWood]

The Road hole has sheds; Troon, Prestwick and many other courses have railways; North Berwick has a stone wall. Is there a place for unnatural hazards in modern design?

[Ran Morrissett]

Absolutely, a good example in this country being the barn on the inside of the dogleg 6th at Five Farms.

Of course, given our litigious society, modern architects are handcuffed in what they can/can't do these days, with the lawsuit involving the neighbor of Essex County being a sad but prime example.

In terms of modern designs, my understanding is that the clubhouse at Stonewall is definitely in play?

[Mike_Cirba]

As discussed on a recent thread, the 18th hole at J.Michael Poellot/Ernie Els Whiskey Creek course in Maryland incorporates the ruins of an old stone farmhouse in the middle of the 18th fairway at about the 280 mark.  

It's lovely, and a conversation piece, but liability aside, someone is going to get themselves or their playing partners killed out there trying to play their second shot.  

[Jeff_Mingay]

The par 5 8th at Hurdzan/Fry's Devil's Paintbrush near Toronto also features the stone ruins of the foundation of an old farmhouse or barn in the centre of the fairway.

It also works alright, in my opinion, presenting driving options just as a centre fairway bunker would.

And it looks kinda neat.

[GeoffreyC]

The barn that BillV described on the 6th hole at Hamilton Farm.  It abuts the left rear of the green right next to the 7th tee.  You really can hit it into the bathroom and have a reasonable shot back to many pin locations.  Hurdzen/Fry again and it too looks kinda neat.

The clubhouse at Plainfield is also in play from the 9th. Three of us know who can attest to this   .

[Mike_Cirba]

Yes, and I can honestly say that it wasn't one of my chops..er...chips that found the clubhouse window, although I did witness the humorous event.  

Perhaps the real culprit will step forward and fess up once we are all able to laugh again...

[ForkaB]

Is the clubhouse at Plainfield in play?

I understand that the clubhouse at Western Gailes is (or was) considered part of the course and someone once chipped back off the carpet in the lounge back through a window onto the 18th green and sunk his putt for his par.

[aclayman]

How about wolmanized wood as posts to rope off an enviornmentally sensitive area?
Or,
As witnessed today, wooden post driven into the ground to help hold up a greenside bunker that, until recently, was being held up by ice plant?

[T_MacWood]

Is there a fine line between an interesting use and a pretentious or overly clever use? For example although Macdonald copied the Road Hole, he did not recreate the railway sheds. And on the opposite side of the spectrum, at Myrtle Beach didn't the Barefoot resort recreate a ruined plantation? Where do you draw the line on a modern design?

[Mike Ventola]

Tom
I must admit that I like the Plantation Ruin at the Love Course in M. Beach.
It adds a little strategy to a hole that reminded me of the first hole of the Eden course at St. Andrews.  Bare foot’s is a short drivable par 4 where the wall can help or hurt. It comes into play on your approach no matter what.
The plantation is also a point of reference on the rather flat white bread landscape of M.B.  Something to separate this course from the other 113 in the area.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom MacWood,

I think those features work best when they were part of the original land before the golf course was built.

Attempts to introduce unique features during or after golf course construction just don't seem to fit in.

[ForkaB]

We should not forget that the railway sheds and lines at TOC, Prestwick and Troon are NOT part of the courses, being OB.  The numerous stone walls at NB West ARE on the course, of course.  I think that in this current age, the liabilty issues of designing a golf hole in which a public throughfare was in the possible line of flight of a golf ball or a stone wall was constructed that might lead to a ball bouncing back and injuring a player would make such architectural features (not "hazard" viz. The Rules of Golf) impractical.

[T_MacWood]

In Macdonald's day the railway at St.Andrews was in play, as was the road there and also at Rye -- I'm not sure about the RR at Woking, Aberdovey, Prestwick and Troon. There is a railway intersecting the Columbia course in DC.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Another stone ruins talked about previous on this site are located between two holes at Fieldstone outside of Wilmington, DE, where Jamie Slonis won the Patterson Cup.  There's a stone wall on a par 3 at Lansdowne, outside of Washington, D.C.  Of course, there was Gary Player playing up next to the clubhouse at Lytham at the Open ('72?).

Would Pete Dye's railroad ties be considered unnatural if stone walls are?

[Mike O'Neill]

Ben Crenshaw had us build a stone wall running along the fairway on number 4 at Austin Golf Club. I think the wall was to have been about 10-15 yards off the fairway line on the left, though I was not there for grassing so I can't say if that turned out to be true. I believe it was inspired by old stone walls Ben has seen in Scotland etc. It was about three feet high and probably 60 yards long or so.

[Paul_Daley]

At the Moonah Course - The National Golf Club, Cape Schanck, designer Greg Norman left an old farm windmill standing in the middle of one fairway. It is a real curiosity piece and featured frequently in the pre-course publicity. It barely comes into play for most golfers.

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