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toddeckenrode

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2001, 05:17:00 PM »
I agree with 15 at Pasy.  Always been one of my favorite holes for it's intimacy (a little too intimate to 16 tee sometimes), beauty, and danger.  

Will E

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2001, 05:29:00 PM »
To recover would be tough but....
1. Casa de Campo #5 (with the old tree)
2. CPC #15
3. John Bernhardt will agree that #2 at Monroe (La.) MUNY may be the greatest of all

4. Engineers #14
5. NGLA #6 does make the cut

I'm not sure that a recovery from a bad wedge is required to make a hole "great".


Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2001, 05:42:00 PM »
#17 Sand Hills
#6 NGLA
#11 Shinnecock
#14 Maidstone
#2 Prairie Dunes
#15 Cypress Point
#10 Southampton Golf Club (Raynor 1925)
# 5 The Bridge

"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

ForkaB

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2001, 05:43:00 PM »
Shooter

My thought is that once you understand that the consequences of your "bad wedge" might be tragic, rather than relatively trivial, it makes that next wedge much, much harder to execute properly.  Without that latent fear, it's just a drop kick, like #7 at Pebble Beach.


Will E

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2001, 06:02:00 PM »
Okay, so a short par 3 that is an easy bogey gets thrown out right?

Royal Dornoch is the best course I've played (no contest), but I wouldn't think #10 would make your list.
Does it have to be do or die like the 18th at Pirate's Cove putt-putt :> )?
No, you said #17 at TPC was too tough.
I'm clearly confused with criteria #2.
This question is too tough for me, I guess thats why I like it.


TEPaul

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2001, 02:33:00 AM »
This is speculation on my part because the hole hasn't been played yet but I'm going to predict that #11 Hidden Creek will be a great short par 3!

Richard Wrist

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2001, 03:12:00 AM »
#12 at Woodhall Spa.  Very easy to make double figures.

Paul Perrella

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2001, 05:12:00 AM »

 There is an uphill par 3 at Myopia Hunt that is a great little one. I'm not sure of the number but the green is only 9 paces wide and it is well bunkered. Its one of my favorites.

ForkaB

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2001, 06:47:00 AM »
Shooter

If you miss #10 at RDGC in the bunkers, 3 or 4 is your score.  However, if you miss it right or long or long left and have to get it back onto the green, and hte greens are running hard a fast, you make 3 only if you make at least one great shot out of the next two, and if you slightly mishit shot #2 you've got shot #2 all over again.

It's not by far the best or hardest par 3 at Dornoch (2 and 6 are both harder and better) but it is the only one under 150 yards .


Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2001, 07:21:00 AM »
John Conley --

How about that dinky little par-3 at Woodhill (Wayzata, Minn.), with the tiny green atop the hill? I loved that hole, back in the days when I knew rich people from Wayzata who hadn't tired of playing with (and/or knowing) me.

Is that little hole No. 2? Or is it No. 11? I can't remember. When I used to play there, 25 years ago, we'd sometimes start on No. 1 and sometimes on No. 10 -- and the holes were so much alike (same direction; both par-4s, more or less the same length, through the same topography) that I can't remember which was which.

That subject must have come up here: side-by-side 1s-and-10s and/or 9s-and-18s. (One example: I like Hazeltine a lot -- except for the side-by-side 9 and 18, which are just too much alike. And, of course, I profoundly miss the old No. 17 at Hazeltine -- which, if I ran things, would have become a par-73 when they replaced the old par-3 No. 16 with the new par-4 No.16. The old 17 was my favorite hole on the course -- PJ Boatwright be darned.)

Of all the short par-3s I've played: Give me No. 17 at Sand Hills and No. 11 (?) at Lahinch.

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Herb_Flood

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2001, 07:26:00 PM »
Rich,

I really don't care for item #2 on your criteria list. I believe a great short par 3 is a hole where 2 is difficult and it's very easy to make 4. TPC #17 comes to mind regarding "easy to make 5." The hole is to "tricked-up."

For my money: Merion #13
             Maidstone #8
             Shinnecock #11


Herb_Flood

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2001, 07:26:00 PM »
Rich,

I really don't care for item #2 on your criteria list. I believe a great short par 3 is a hole where 2 is difficult and it's very easy to make 4. TPC #17 comes to mind regarding "easy to make 5." The hole is to "tricked-up."

For my money: Merion #13
             Maidstone #8
             Shinnecock #11


Herb_Flood

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2001, 07:32:00 PM »
Oops...hit the wrong button.

Continued...TOC #11
           Kingsbarns #14(?)
           Troon #8
           Tchefuncta #3


John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2001, 05:20:00 AM »
Dan:

I seem to remember that as #2 at Woodhill, and it is very tough if you get left on the hill.  I'd toss the 3rd at Minikahda in as well, although none match #3 at WBYC in my book.

I did not see Hazeltine prior to the changes and agree with your assessment of 9/18.  What a bland finish, albeit fair.  #8 is a very good short par 3 on a modern course, with the green angling against the lake.


Matthew

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2001, 10:04:00 AM »
I think that the perfect example of a short hole is the 9th at Myopia Hunt.  It requires accuracy from a player instead of distance control and its bunkers are amazing, plus from one of these you could play an amazing shot too save par, it is a gem in golf!

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #65 on: September 24, 2001, 10:58:00 AM »
John Conley --

Thanks for the info. As you might guess, I generally ended up left of Woodhill #2, on (or at the bottom of) that nasty slope.

I haven't played Minikahda since high school, when I really wasn't a good enough player to handle it, and when I didn't know how much I loved golf courses. I spent most of the day in the trees, where, I've found, it's hard to appreciate a course properly. But I do remember, very well, that little No. 3, and I liked it a lot.

Haven't played White Bear. Along with Interlachen, it's at the top of my list of local courses I've never played but yearn to.

The original Hazeltine had an enormous par-3 16 (about 240 yards) over a valley to a green slightly below tee level (if memory serves; it's been 25 years since I played that hole). There was a big ball-catcher of a tree in front of the green; somebody, during the '70 Open, said it was the world's only dogleg par-3. Lousy hole, I thought.

The tee of the old 17 was down the hill, just to the left of where the new 16 green is. It was, I believe, 344 yards from the back tee, a very narrow fairway up the hill to an inverted-saddle landing area, leaving a short-iron to a green guarded on the front by the two little ponds that are still there. (I don't believe they changed the green much when they converted it to a par-3.) During the '70 Open, the pros all played long-irons up to the saddle; I don't remember seeing anyone hit any kind of a wood.

It was an exciting hole. Woods left; woods and a creek right. Treacherous green.

The most memorable shot of that entire Open was Jacklin's in the third round (I think), after he'd pull-hooked his tee shot well into the trees. He proceeded to hit a punch shot through an opening in the trees -- a shot that landed short of the ponds and ran up the little runway between them and onto the green. He made the putt for birdie.

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

ForkaB

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2001, 01:14:00 PM »
Herb

I excluded #17 TPC in my original post for just the reason you cite.  My criterion #2 requires that a 3 be possible if you miss your tee shot.

Cheers

Rich

PS--Much as I love the rest of the course, I don't think that Kingsbarns #13 meets any of the criteria, except #3 (exposure to the elements).


Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #67 on: September 27, 2001, 07:22:00 AM »
Mr. Goodale --

I saw Fred Couples make a 3 at TPC 17 after missing his tee shot.

(Smily face.)

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Mr. Goodale

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #68 on: September 27, 2001, 07:56:00 AM »
Mr. Kelly

What I actually said in my original post was:

"Some, like the 17th at TPC-Sawgrass are far too hard to par if your first shot is awry."

I'm sure even Freddie would concur

Mr. Goodale


Mr. Kelly

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2001, 08:06:00 PM »
Mr. Goodale --

You may call me Dan.

Or Danny -- or Dannie, if you like. ;>}} (double chin)


Mr. Goodale

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2001, 08:17:00 PM »
Danny

You can call me Rich, but only after you learn how to do a proper smiley face!


Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2001, 10:06:00 AM »
Mr. Goodale --

How's this?

{:^)}}

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

ForkaB

Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2001, 01:38:00 PM »
Dan

You get an A+ for effort.  Now get back to work!

Rich


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #73 on: July 31, 2005, 07:43:33 AM »
Rich

Would the 11th at Harlech qualify?  Downwind it can be brutal.  One is almost forced to flirt with the dune on the right and all it entails or be able to strike a ball much better than myself.

The 13th on the East course of Saunton comes to mind.  Not sure it is easy to take a 5 though.  

I assume The Dell must have been mentioned earlier.  If I had to guess I would say nearly four years earlier.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Andy Troeger

Re:Great Short par-3's?
« Reply #74 on: July 31, 2005, 08:35:20 AM »
I would add #4 and #15 at the very underrated South Bend CC in Indiana. #4 is especially good, with a lake to the right (not really in play unless you miss the green by 20 yards) and a very small green surrounded by bunkers. When the wind is coming off the lake, its an especially tough shot even at under 150 yards. Have to admit I've made a few more 5's than 2's!