[Ted_Sturges]

In another thread comparing High Pointe to Victoria National, the topic of courses perhaps being being better suited for match play versus medal play came up.  This country is obviously obsessed with medal play (welcome to the 4 1/2 hour round), while many in the world much prefer the game in match play form.

Should courses be designed with the medal golfer in mind?  Would one play Pine Valley differently if he was playing for a score rather than trying to win a particular hole?  What courses in the world are better suited for match play versus medal play?

Certainly Victoria National would be on a short list of US courses that would be ideal for a match play event.  I'd be interested in hearing other's comments and lists of venues.

[John_Conley]

It was interesting hearing David McLay Kidd talk about the 5th at Bandon Dunes.  Once I could get past the fact that your 7 might beat my 8 on the hole I understood what he was shooting for.

[Ted_Sturges]

In this country, there is so much griping about a 470 yard hole being an "easy" par 5 or an impossible par 4.  In a match, the lowest score wins.  Doesn't much matter the par.  In the UK, I can remember playing 420 yard holes into the wind that I knew I had no chance to reach in 2 shots.  In a match, you're just trying to win the hole.  Par becomes irrelevant.

[T_MacWood]

Ted
Whistling Staits comes to mind, in fact many of Dye's more recent efforts are probably more suited to match play than medal.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

The trend of the PGA and PGA Tour is influencing other course to redesign with medal play in mind.  Let's face it, Rees Jones has become the premier designer for medal courses.  East Lake, Atlanta Athletic Club are two I have visited in the past year.  Most holes are similar, most holes are long and the features vary little during the 18 hole round.  If you are playing well, Mickelson like, you will score well.  Get into a rythmn and go.  Few holes test your determination to stay in your game plan.  There are no options, hit it long, straight and make putts, don't think.  I assume Torrey Pines is attempting to follow this pattern.  I haven't played it, but Beth Page may have been redesigned this way.  These courses wear me out, make me want for a 6,400 yard course.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Thr PGA needs to go back to match play. There is no greater drama than match play golf. I am not sure how you design a course for medal play though.

[John_McMillan]

Ted S -

In any sort of competition, the lowest score wins.  Par is also irrelevant in medal play.  It is, however, the most convenient way for spectators to track the relative positions of golfers who have played a different number of holes.

All -

Is the only difference between a "match play" and "medal play" design that the match play course has less opportunity for recovery shots (more penal hazards), which a golfer might be more tempted to play near when his total score is not counted?  

Or is there another feature which makes a course more comparatively suited for match play?

[RobertWalker]

The Honors Course is good match play course. The Stadium Course at  Ponte Vedra is as well.
A good match play course also takes the foursome match into consideration. Because of that, Ocean Forest is a problem in that one player will never hit a tee shot on any of the par 3 holes.
To be a good match play course, the last 3 holes need to offer something to the long hitter as well as the short hitter. 17 and 18 at TOC provide strategy for both types of player. 16-18 at Ponte Vedra do as well.
As for this country being obsessed with stroke play, I don’t think so. I suspect that most of the leisure golf  played in this country is match play.

[ForkaB]

I agree with Robert.  I would be surprised if as many as 1% of all rounds in this country are played under pure stroke play conditions.  In our golf we tend to play some form of match and we sort of count our score simultaneously, because the USGA tells us we must do so and we want to put some sort of quantification on how we played on the day.

As I've said or implied before--we need to play more stroke play in the US, not less.

Finally, just to be contrary, I think that any good "match play" course is a good "stroke play" course, and vice versa.  No matter the form of golf, you have to make the shots.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Rich , I believe we need more match play tourn. at the tour level not less. the drama and shot making is superior to any stroke play event. also i agree that i am not sure the difference between the two design wise.

[ForkaB]

John

I very much agree with you at the tour level--at the very least bring the PGA back to Match Play.  I was talking about the rest of us, most of whom very rarely get the chance to play a real stroke play round, with a comittee and under the rules of golf, with a card in our hand.

[Jim_Kennedy]

If you just paid $150.00 to slug it out a Pacific Dunes, Bandon Dunes, etc., you're going to get your money's worth. This means putting in the eleven, not picking the ball up. The cost factor is a big detriment to match play's popularity.  

A good match play course doesn't have its hardest holes at the end of each nine but spaced out to insure that strokes given have a chance to be used. A good stroke play course has its hardest holes, not necessarily its highest rated handicap holes, at the end to create drama. IMHO  

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