[Matt_Ward]

For those advocating Montclair greens I have to ask -- how fair are a number of them?

I've played Montclair when high speeds only elevate the issue of unfairness because of existing contours. I don't think it's a solid green configuration when luck completely overrides skill.

I only wish Montclair kept its green speeds, (particularly the ones with massive slope) at reasonable levels.

I can vividly remember many fine players during the '85 Amateur having putts roll up to the hole (i.e. 4th on #2 Nine, to list just one) and then roll back to their feet. The 6th on the 3rd Nine is another "interesting" green. Ditto the 9th green on the same nine.  

To be fair this same condition applies to neighboring courses such as Crestmont and its 11th hole.

I really like the greens on the 4th Nine. They seem to be kept at a far more reasonable pace and are no less interesting because of their configuration (i.e. the bowl on #1, the redan set-up at #3, etc, etc).

Regards,

[archie s]

Probably a little bit of a stock answer on the private side, in that Pine Valleys'gotta be some of the best in the world. Not only challenging and interesting but puttable.

I really like some of the greens at Forsgate, which I played a lot over twenty years (ouch!) ago. Liked the look and the challenge, even if it was often a little scruffy on the conditioning side.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt Ward,

Montclair's greens are great !

It's not the designers fault or the greens fault that they are maintained at speeds beyond their design.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Twisted Dune definitely has some challenging greens as I ran into a couple weeks ago.  On the tough 14th, the pin was placed where when I left my initial putt 2 feet above and left of the hole, I missed the tricky 2nd and was 6 feet away on the 3rd.

On #17, it was borderline 18 at Olympic, though it didn't look like it before I putted.  I had a seemingly benign 15 footer for birdie going up the hill on the right side of the green.  Having left the previous uphill putt too long, I left it (unintentionally) 2 feet short.  Then it rolled back to where I started.  My partner was above the hole, missed, and was further than I had on both putts.

Mr. Flynn (is that you Fred?),
  Woodcrest has some tough greens, especially #1 and #6.  But I have little to compare (or remember) in NJ otherwise, maybe 6-7 other courses, all public.

[Patrick_Mucci]

archie s,

I think Forsgate's greens are more interesting and better than Pine Valley's.

Pine Valley may have more pitch to their greens but Forsgate has more interesting contours.

If they were maintained the same, they'd be all the rage.

But, that's just my opinion.

[T_MacWood]

I can't wait for the story on NJ's tees!

[Matt_Ward]

Tom MacWood:

Touche!

Your suggestion on tees was most enjoyable!

[Pat Mucci]

Ithink we are in agreement on Forsgate, as an old caddy who lost some quid there with my buddies I always loved the greens and bunkers!

[archie s]

sorry Pat

Used your name by mistake in responding to your comment, I told you I was getting old, (too much dirt moving). What I meant to say is that I always thought that Forsgates greens, and for that matter green complexes were really first rate, and some of the best I have seen in the area. I would rather not get into a comparison with PV, and really try not to let conditioning issues sway my opinion too much. Suffice it to say they are imaginative and can be truly outstanding, if memory serves me!

[Matt_Ward]

Given what Pat has said I wonder if many people believe Forsgate's greens are tops in the state (not using conditioning as a primary element)

I still believe PV, Plainfield and even Somerset Hills rate a small notch above.

What about the public side?

Seems like The Knoll is the leading candidate with Ballyowen second. Any concurrence / disagreement???

[mark chalfant]

Matt, try to see North Jersey in Wayne.
Its a superb Travis routing over
hilly terrain  with a highly artistic
set of undulating  greens.

[Matt_Ward]

Mark:

Thanks for the heads-up. However, the competition from a number of other courses in the same region is really stiff. Just check out the names already mentioned on this thread.

Regards,

[Corey_Johnson]

Having just played The Architects Club today
I thought those were some of the better greens in public golf in N.J.It was really tough to get a feel for the speed on some of the putts and even though there was some pretty bold contours there seemed to be alot of subtle breaks when you got close.Maybe it was just my putting. Matt what did you think of the greens here.

[Matt_Ward]

Corey:

Thanks for the suggestion -- The Architect's Club does have a nmber of unique greens and is a worthy candidate to be included in the top five on the public side.

Regards,

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