[John_Conley]

Okay, now I know it is really easy to remember the photos of the Jaws bunkering around that skinny island green.  I only have seen one of his courses and kind of liked it.  Nothing world-class, but functional and enjoyable... with a style you can't find today.

THE G.C. AT SILVER SPRINGS SHORES is outside of Ocala.  The "development" that was in place is now just a ghost town (at least it was 2 years ago when I played it).  But the golf course that's left is a lot of fun.  Interesting doglegs and a good mix of both long and short holes.

To me it seems obvious that not all of his courses can be awful.  What are other courses he's done that you are familiar with and would I enjoy any of them?

The Hooters Tour played Silver Springs Shores this year and Zach Johnson won one of his many events with a real low score, something like -25.  

[Lou_Duran]

I met Mr. Muirhead at a three day golf development conference.  He is an extremely distinguished individual and a very entertaining, interesting speaker.  His book with Guy Rando, "Golf Course Development and Real Estate" is a great resource tool for those who dream of someday building their ideal course.

In terms of his courses, I have played Bent Tree CC in Dallas and found it very playable though not particularly interesting.  I attended my one and only LPGA event there and the ladies complained that the course was too long, even from the front of the men's tee boxes.  The course has a good reputation locally, and is relatively expensive to join.

I have also played Muirfield Village that he co-designed with Jack Nicklaus.  Muirfield is one of the best courses I have ever played, certainly the best conditioned.  The relative contribution of each of the designers is difficult to gauge, and it is my understanding that the association was severed during construction of the course.    

[aclayman]

I hope others with the REAL story can share why he and JN didn't work-out.

I just recently played his Quail Ranch with TN. The course was foundationally sound and the new management desperately wants to have the course (or as close to) that was originally intended rather than the bastardization that previous owners have created.

Sitting in the clubhouse listening to the regulars talk, with passion, about their track made my heart soar. When Tommy made a suggestion to the head pro that he might be able to ask Desmond to come over for a look see, his eyes lit up like a Taliban ammunition cave.  

Just another example of Ran and John's domino effect.

[Matt_Ward]

I've played a number of Desmond Murihead designs (Muirfield Village, among several others), but one that leaps immediately to mind is in my home state -- Stone Harbor.

Located in Cape May County in the extreme southern portion of the state, Stone Harbor was controversial from the get-go.

Muirhead designed a dizzying array of bunkers and all other elements that only his fertile mind could possibly conjure. The course was denounced by a number of people including Ron Whitten and Tom Doak.

Muirhead's famous (infamous) hole was the 7th -- a par-3 of 190 yards called "Jaws." I'm sure many people have seen pictures of the original design because it has since been changed.

There were other quirks at Stone Harbor such as th efinishing hole and the tee-pee 17th tee, but you will also find quality holes such as the 2nd, a demanding no nonsense par-4 that often plays directly into the prevailing wind and is protected by water on the tee shot and the right half of the green.

Stone Harbor is especially demanding when the wind blows because of the close proximity of water on many holes. I guarantee you that after you play the course you will have an opinion -- Stone Harbor leaves very few golfers in the "undecided" column.

Regards,

[Chris_Hervochon]

I have played Stone Harbor, and it seems like you like it, as did I (kind of).  However, there are some architectural features there that are good, and some are just plain crap.  I think the courses penal style sort of outweighs its strategic merit at some points.  Quite honestly I am against some of the grotesquely unnatural features (tee pee 17th tee, overusage of manmade lakes, monotonous mounding in some areas, island fairways and greens, etc...) however there are some fairly intriguing holes on that course.  It's just that the unnaturalness of the whole thing makes me uneasy.  Did anybody read Muirhead's interview in golf digest about 3-4 years ago?  I found him to be quite intriguing and well spoken, albeit a little odd about some topics.  He would be an interesting person to meet, I think.  Does anybody else have any info on him?

[richard]

Chris
www.golfdesigner.com

I've played Kooralbyn Valley here in Australia and whilst it's a beautiful setting, there is not a hand or fish bunker in sight.

[Adam_Messix]

I met Desmond Muirhead a few years ago when he visited Mayacoo Lakes for the first time since the mid point of construction.  It was interesting that when riding around with him he knew the details of the course very well after so long.  He described many of the details that had been removed in Nicklaus' 1988 redux.  Desmond was a very articulate man, very surprising for the stories that I had heard about him and what types of courses that I had seen him do.  

The one thing that stood out in my mind was that his favorite course is National Golf Links of America....that really caught me off guard to the point that I didn't ask him why.

As far as the split up goes, Mayacoo was under construction when it occured.  Charlie Philips, the owner of the construction company that built the course, said that Muirhead was around in the beginning and then all of sudden he was gone.  Looking at the drawings Muirhead drew up, it's interesting to see how much the finished product differed.  The feeling Charlie had was that there was a difference of opinions and that the split was amicable.  Neither Nicklaus or Muirhead spoke ill of one another when I broached the subject with each.  There were many more flowing lines in the original routing plan and in the construction drawings.  The redesigns/renovations that Nicklaus has done to Mayacoo in recent years has taken most to all of the Muirhead influence out of the course although there are a few still left, most notably the 11th and 12th holes.  

[Jeff_Mingay]

I'm curious about the circumstances which brought Nicklaus and Muirhead together. Does any one know?

Nowadays, it seems like an odd pair.

[Mike_Cirba]

For such a revolutionary designer, it seems odd that Muirhead would co-author a recent book (with Tip Anderson) on how to play TOC.  

On second thought, it seems that Mr. Muirhead simply enjoys his enigmatic status, and loves to surprise.  

However, I have to ask others who've played his courses...how often does he also delight??

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I guess I'm one of the few that really enjoy the eccentric, egomaniacal character known as Desmond Muirhead. Doug Nichols is another that could more then vouch for the man's eccentriticity (If that is a word, which it isn't, but I'll use it anyway! A post on Desmond Muirhead dares to draw outside the boundries of normal!)

A well known golf writer in these parts once described Desmond as "the most proficent of snake charmers..." I found this statement to be very accurate. Love him or hate him, the man is very clever to insight controversy. I don't think he would like it any other way.

Yes, the majority of his modern designs are not what we would call structured on a purist level. However, I can take you to three of his courses here in SoCal and show you some really intriguing design. As I said to Adam Clayman whilst playing one of these, Does this look like something from a person that didn't know how to play the game, let alone define strategy?

Desmond has relied on gimmick way too much in his modern designs, but, in effect, to only incite questions in a players mind. Like it or not, no matter how artificial it really is, there is strategy to play some of these most photographed holes. Most of the bunkering is in some pretty good places.

I will with-hold any comment on exactly why he and Jack parted ways. There is no reason to discuss this as I feel that Desmond is the first to play it down as it should be. He is past it. However, if anyone should ever feel that the original Muirfield Village design is very little Desmond and mostly Jack, there are kidding themselves.  

I have never been to MV, but I can point out features from pictures alone that can credit this concern. One of them is to simply look at the long flowing curves of the water hazards. They scream Desmond, as well as the routing and placement of housing which from accounts I have heard; as well as not seen on television, are perfectly placed.

If anyone should ever find themselves in SoCal and would like to meet the man, I highly suggest it. Yes, he is wild, but he is worth the time to say that you have meet him and it will be an experience that one will never forget.

[Brad Klein]

Muirhead is a brilliant land planner and an imaginative artist. He doesn't play golf. He doesn't design for golf. He designs land sculptures. He thinks the Martians are coming, and he wants them to land on his courses.

[David Wigler]

I think I have only played one Desmond Muirhead.  It is Bay Valley in Bay City Michigan.  I can sum up my honest opinion in one word - Schlock!

[Will E]

Brad,
Your post makes it sound like you don't think the Martians are coming.
He is not the only architect who has courses better suited for UFO landings than golf.

[RJ_Daley]

I've heard Tommy praise and defend Muirhead many times.  I know Tommy well enough to respect his ideas about the man.  I wouldn't pass up a chance to have a fine dinner and conversation with Mr Muirhead.  I see him as a land artist in the last decade or so.  I think he may have had a few solid efforts at real GCA, but I don't think the game of golf is where he is at anymore.  I think he falls into the trap of becoming a characture of himself particularly when one looks at the web site he has and examine his thought on the Korean extravaganza.  It seems to me he has become totally full of himself and has the ability to convince other very wealthy and bored individuals that his artistic bent is part of great GCA, and it is not IMHO.   I think he has gone off the charts.  With all that said, I'd still like to have one of his original hole drawings like found on his website as something of interest and charm to hang in my home.  He has his place in the history and development of GCA, but only as a curiosity and free spirit thinker, not a great practitioner or GCA.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

David,
What were some of the features you felt were schlocky from Bay Valley?

I guess what I am trying to say is give me some defintion of what kind of a golf course it is. Tell me something about it, what features you didn't like and what features you did, etc.

I think this maybe ironic since I give very little creedence to their rating but I believe at one time Golf Digest had Mayacoo Lakes, Muirfield Village, and Mission Hills-Old Course on their esteemed list back some years ago. I have always heard nothing but the best of things about each of these courses.

[Brad Klein]

Isn't it time, Ran, to do the GCA interview with . . . . . Desmond Muirhead?

[David Wigler]

Tommy,

It has been almost ten years since I played Bay Valley and I have never had any inclination to go back, but here are my mental notes on the course.  Bay Valley is the kind of course that would look fantastic from an airplane.  Once you get down to playing though, the course does not work.  Hazards are placed in unreasonable positions to fit the approach shots that are needed.  Doglegs do not work with the designs.  The bunkering seems to be completely for aesthetics, with very little strategic value added to the shots required.  As well, the land plan here was awful.  I do not know if it was the fault of the developer or designer but there are houses right up to the points of doglegs.  You feel like you are playing half the course from someone’s back yard.   I have been told that Nicklaus was also part of this project.  I do not know what impact they both had.  It truly is a bad golf course.  I do not think I knew that Muirhead did not play golf, but given this design, it certainly makes sense.    

[TEPaul]

To me, Desmond Muirhead was one of golf architecture's most extreme innovators and experimenters, particulary in the second half of his career (after his ten year hiatus).

As such, it would seem that his creations should be preserved as best they can be, particularly and maybe only his most innovative. The most innovative and experimental might be Stone Harbor G.C and I have said more than once that I'm sorry it has been soften and altered since it's opening.

Apart from being good archtitecture or bad archtiecture, it's definitely different and radical arcthitecture and should be viewed and preserved as such.

I've played Stone Harbor about a half dozen times, first not long after opening before any softening or alterations were done and last about a year ago. Now it's a more "normal" course but in my opinion it will never be able to be in anyway normal and therefore is best presented for what it originally was--about as abnormal, different and unusual as could be. In the beginning the margins for error were razor thin and the course had almost a theme park aura to it with numerous symbolic and pyschological features!

Muirhead was probably the most innovative and experimental architect of the "Modern Age" and although his architectural innovations and experiments with the likes of Stone Harbor never caught on at all, what he did was remarkable and should have been preserved as it originally was. It wasn't preserved as it was and certainly it would be too much to think that it would ever be restored to the way it was. On both counts that's too bad--because it was an "envelope pushing", "outside edge of the spectrum" golf course and very interesting as such.

What the hell, I wouldn't even mind if someone restored one of the old early 19th incredibly obnoxious "geometric" designs just as an example of where golf architecture had been and how far it's gone. I might have to amend my thoughts, though, on what goes around comes around--that would not be good!

[John_Conley]

I was hoping this didn't turn into a discussion about Stone Harbor, or as I've heard it called... STONED HARBOR.  The photos I've seen from it are way over the top.  It weaved some theme with either Greek or Roman Mythology through the 18 holes.  Weird.

I admit I haven't seen much of his work.  I'm glad to hear that other courses he's done leave the same impression that I got from Silver Springs Shores.

I know recently he has been more prolific in Japan and after Stone Harbor I can see why.  I wouldn't hesitate to check out another of his courses if given the chance.

[aclayman]

From what little I know...

It seems like Mr. Muirhead realized a standardization trend way before anybody and his "over the top" work was his way of thumbing his nose at the benign medeocrity, that has become the norm.

Dick Daley said it best in Tim's long thread about techno's possible negative influences.

The Salleri of Golf has shown that if you build for the bulge in the bell shaped curve, you end up with a beautiful benign boring over-budgeted boondoggle to boot. BLAH

[Tommy_Naccarato]

David,
If there are houses anywhere near the golf course, to the point that they come into play, I can assure you that the developer decided to fore go where Desmond Muirhead had planned them to be.

Simply put, as Brad has hilighted, Desmond prides himself as a land planner first and last. He almost religiously professes getting the houses away as far as possible, yet, ingeniuosly placed out of harms way. For him to get a house in play would upset him to no end, and to further this, he would have nothing to do with a developer ever again if he circumvented his original intent.

Trust me when I say this, I think that Desmond's designs are without doubt over the top in many respects, at least the ones I have seen in pictures, however, I have yet to play a bad golf course of his design.

Brad, Ran and I actually had questions all typed-out and faxed to Desmond. In truth, he actually backed out of doing the monthly interview as it sort of freaked him out. He asked me to show him more interviews, which I actually printed out yours, Tom's, Geoff's and Bill Coore's. In typical Desmond fashion, he didn't like many things about the questions presented to him and asked me to get him out of doing it, which I obliged.

The questions weren't confrontational or anything, but something set him off. And it is unfortunate, because the man is without doubt very interesting and enjoyable to be around.

There are many dark sides to him also, and those close to him can attest.

Yes, Desmond is weird, but I have no problem saying that so am I.

[TEPaul]

Sorry to mention Stone Harbor then, but it has to be Desmond Muirhead's most radical design and will be the one that he's best remembered for.

I'm not even saying it's good or bad, just that most of it is truly different. And frankly I like different, particularly if it's one of a kind as Stone Harbor is. The course is close to 20 years old now and it has to be admitted that whatever it is, it's type or style did not catch on at all in golf course architecture.

There're obviously plenty of good reasons it didn't catch on, but again I think it's neat to see, at least so anyone can see and know where golf course architecture once went!

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