[Brad Klein]

Just played Kinloch, a new upscale private club just west of Richmond, Virg. Club/project was basically undertaken by amateur great Vinnie Giles; architect was Lester George. It struck me as extremely substantial, not fluffy or superficial, with lots of optional shot-making, ground game alternatives, split fairways, no forced carries. Was wondering if anyone else has played it or been similarly impressed?  

[Ran Morrissett]

Brad,

I have 10 +/- friends who have played it and the reviews remind me of a Strantz course, with people both loving and questioning it.

The people who love it feel it is strategic/option packed while others question if the architect(s) went overboard once or twice too often in forcing/creating decision dilemmas. I think their perception on a split fairway hole (or maybe it was a just a hole with a gigantic fairway) was that you would never go the other way, so why build/maintain it?

Still, overall, it has been enthusiastically received in golf poor Richmond.

I hope to see it in December.

Cheers,

[TEPaul]

Ran:

When you go play Kinloch check out that alternate fairway you mentioned that you said nobody understands why you would go that way. Then carefully check out the way they do go and figure out something clever to put on the way they do go to make them look for another way to go--like that "other" fairway you mentioned! If you can't figure something out I'll get in touch with Max Behr--he'll figure something out!

[Brad Klein]

Richmond being golf poor is an understatement. It is also the country's bigest city w/o municipal golf.

As for Kinloch the par-4s with alternate fairways (2,4,15) all offer meaningful choices, esp. as the 4th and 15th are very short. The alternate fairway par-5s (9,11) are certainly meaningful for long hitters and in fact offer the best way to get home in two.

[Brad Klein]

One other point about Kinloch. Very much unlike Mike Strantz courses, all of the elevations are at grade level. There is not one single forced or artificial looking contour line out there. so that your eye scans the entire terrain and never is hit with an aburpt or jagged edge.

[TEPaul]

Brad Klein:

Would you describe the alternate fairway holes at Kinloch? Are they really alternate fairways, in that they're divided, and if so by what?

Personally, I make a huge distinction between alternte routes (that are for instance melded together) and real alternate fairways (that are distinctly divided)!

I really can't think of a course in America that has more than about two real divided fairways holes and you seem to say that Kinloch has possibly five!

I think this sounds like a very good thing as real alernated fairways, I think, make the average American golfer understand what the basics of classic strategic golf really is if he realizes he absolutely has at least two distinct routes to choose between and is sort of forced to make a distinct choice.

And who is Lester George? He isn't in C&W. How much input do you know that Vinny Giles had in the architecture of Kinloch? And how long a drive is the course from center Richmond?

[Brad Klein]

Kinloch is 12 miles west of downtown Richmond. If you wrote or call I'm sure they are open to raters.

I think I know what you mean by your distinction. Let's just say that the holes in question divide themselves by splitting the route as follows. Many of the holes offer options, but these holes offer alternate fairways, while most holes offer alternate routes. I'll give yardages from back two tees (par-72 7,112 yards / 6,671 yards ) but briefly describe as I played from 6,671 markers.

No. 2: par-4, 400/375. Fairway is about 80 yards wide, divided by diagonal echelon of bunkers left to right, forcing a choice between high road (longer carry, but better angle) and low road (easier tee shot but requires more demanding approach over front right bunkers.

No. 4: par-4, 334/319. Wide fairway, split by huge bunker complex as above. Almost driveable on high side; safer on low-side, where I hit 5-Wood/L-wedge.

No. 9: par-5, 556/540. Major choice on tee shot, with vast complex of wetlands and canyon-like natural gulley smack in middle, with fairway going around both side. The only way to get home in two is to cut all hell out of a tee shot. Otherwise, safe route is left, with options for a lay-up 2nd and longer 3rd, or a bold 2nd followed by pitch 3rd. I hit drive/8-iron short/then 5-iron. But I could have tried drive/5-wood/wedge.

No. 11: par-5, 495/480. Why not one relatively accessible par-5? Water course down the middle splits safer route left from tigher but shorter route right. Downwind, I got home left with two strong shots (driver, 5-wood). Right route is much easier, if you carry drive over cross bunker and hit 25-yard fairway. Creek crosses in front of green, plus revetted bunker that divides bow tie shaped green.

No. 15:  par-4, 328/302. Just when you worry that the par-4 options are all high-road left/low-road right, this one reverses the pattern. There's a speed slot down the left side where you can thread bunker complex and trees to get to front apron of green on sharp dogleg; or you can play rght over a diagonal bunker that runs right to left and forces you to play some kind of angle into perched, well-protected two-tier green. This was the only slightly suspect hole on the course, owing to a tree short of the green and the tiered puting surface. But there's plenty of room to play either path.

Sorry to go on at such length.

[SPDB]

On the subject of the welfare of Richmond golf -

Fazio just finished a new course for the VSGA - anybody play this one?

[TEPaul]

Haven't played that course of the VSGA but the GAP (Philly) was looking at that course with amazement recently. VSGA has some fundraiser down there who basically raised the money to build that course on his own--and it wasn't an inconsiderable amount!

[Rob_Waldron]

Brad

I am glad to see you enjoyed Kinloch. I thought Hamilton Farms was a runaway for best new private for 2001 until I played Kinloch. I have not stopped talking about the course since I returned home.

I particularly enjoyed the driving options presented by each hole. There always seemed to be a conservative option (ok bailout) which required a more difficult appraoch. The more demanding option generally rewarded a well played drive with either a shorter appraoch or a better angle to the pin or both.

As good as the design is the concept may be even better. This is a GOLF CLUB in its trueset from. Everything about the club is dedicated to promoting the traditions of the game.  From the outstannding caddie program to the incredible practice facilities and state of the art learning center.

I think Vinnie most valuable contribution is the golfy (if golfy is a word) atmosphere. There has been no discussion of the course conditioning which of course is perfect.

By the way, I understand they are considering extending the tee on #11 which would probably take the right fairway out of play. There is also discussion about reconfiguring the the holes so that #9 could become the finishing hole.

The other interesting feature of Kinloch is the 19th hole known as the "BYE" hole. The hole is a par 3 extending as long as 190 yards over water to a green positioned below the clubhouse.

Kinloch is absolutely a "MUST PLAY"  

[Michael_Ballard]

Although I agree that Richmond is golf poor, it is not technically true that it does not have a municipal course.  Henrico County has a municipal course called Belmont.  It hosted the 1949 PGA championship when it was the Heritage Country club.  Construction is complete on another Lester George project in Richmond, called Providence Golf Club. Although it did not have nearly the construction budget of Kinloch, it will be an excellent public golf course.

[Jim_Kennedy]

TEPaul,
You can access georgegolfdesign.com to find out a bit more about Lester George and courses he has built/renovated. I think it was Boardroom mag. that had Lester write an article about Kinloch and his reverence for golden age courses, their design and their preservation. As I recall he sounded very sincere.    

[TEPaul]

JimK:

Thanks.

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