[archie_struthers]

Spent a long windy weekend playing in the Ray Floyd Cup at Indian Creek CC in Miami Beach. Must reiterate that it is a super golf course, probably one of the best member courses I have ever played. No forced carries, fairly short, but superior green complexes that make it a great test for all levels of golfer. Local knowledge a must, which is fine by me. Flynn shows his talent to me in that it is much different than many of the Philly area courses I have played. Greens are crowned in many cases and really pushed up, usually not my favorite but it works fine here. We played the course at par 70 Saturday, as the member friendly #9 &18 are reduced to par fours. Really, really fun!

[TEPaul]

That's really interesting Archie and I would love to hear some hole by hole descriptions of Indian Creek. I've spent a lot of time on the Fla east coast but have never been near Indian Creek. I've heard though that it's very different from madman Flynn's very strong career inventory elsewhere! Even the Clarence Geist/W. Flynn Boca Raton complex I've never seen, although I heard it's either NLE or unrecognizable!

You watch your wallet hanging around with those rich boys, Archie--I worry about you sometimes!

[Zook]

I'd like to say, that this is my first time responding to a "thread", and I don't claim to know half as much as most people here, but I do claim to love golf, and strategic, functional design.  Normally I just read the responces, but when I saw the topic, I felt it necessary to post something.  I was fortunate enough to play a Flynn design, a charming little tract, called The Country Club of Harrisburg.  It was built around 1926.  On this course, there are many elevation changes, but Flynn routed it perfectly and theres not one dull hole to be found on the course.  The greens are amazing, and the fairways rarely provide a level lie, which I love!  The bunkers are small, but well placed.  What more do ya want!  If you get a chance to play this course, or any Flynn design, don't pass it up!

[Patrick_Mucci]

archie struthers,

What was the grass type on the greens ?

Highly contoured greens can be difficult to maintain at short heights in South Florida.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul,

You're correct about Boca Raton G&CC, unfortunately.  Parts of the original William Flynn course had been incorporated for other uses over the years, and the latest incarnation is a Gene Bates design on a really tight property.  It is truly not a bad effort given the limitations, and the condition is pretty incredible.  It's not a bad resort track, overall, but only a hole or two even follow the same original Flynn routing.

Zook,

I played golf recently with a fellow who is similarly enamored with CC of Harrisburg.  I believe the course was built in 1916, and was one of Flynn's very first courses.  I hope to make a visit there next year.

[TEPaul]

Zook:

Don't you worry about not knowing half as  much as the people who post on here. All the people who post on here and think they know something about architecture (except Tom Doak), including me, don't really know squat about architecture--they just delude themselves into thinking they do!

[DB3]

 TEPaul:

  Indian Creek is a wonderfull golf course with a superb routing.
  I have been fortunate enough to play there a dozen or so times, and enjoy it more every time I play it.  
 It is very strategic, and exceedingly fair.  A great example of strategy is the par 5 third.  A hole of about 520 with a severly pushed up green squezzed somewhat into the northeast corner of the property.  Bold play along the right side of the fairway offers a shorter shot, and a superb angle into the very small perched green.  If you want a hole by hole description, let me know and I will post it later this evening.  
  One side note.  The club has a fabulous arieal post card showing the entire island with the course mainly in the middle and the houses along the BAy.  Palaces would probably be a better term.  Dan Belden

[Todd_Eckenrode]

Have played Indian Creek once, and really enjoyed it.  You're right re. it being a great member course with regard to the "tests" really coming the closer you get to the hole.  I think you were implying high playability, really.   Even more descriptive, it's a great "winter" course for all the reasons you listed, as I'm sure most of the play in the winter is members from east coast or midwest who haven't touched a stick in awhile.  A fun test with wonderful green complexes requiring some really testy shots around the hole.

[JZook]

TEPaul,  

Thanks for the reassurence.  I am only 17, and I know a lot for my age, but I have that hunger to read more and know more, and therefore, I am very careful about what I say.  My hope is that I never make the mistake saying, "Fazio is doing a great job down there in Georgia!"

To Mr. Cirba,

I think CC of Harrisburg was designed in 1926.  I agree that it was one of his first, because it was only 2 years before, when he aided Hugh Wilson at Merion.  Maybe I am wrong.  But I do hope you enjoyed your round at Ridgewood!  Mr Bell and Mr Loke are my boss' and friends and are fine gentlemen.  If you do get to play CC of Harrisburg, watch out for #11.  What a great par 5.  Uphill off the tee, (which is only about 7 feet wide), and severly downhill for your second shot, to a wonderfully designed green complex, that's tucked back in the woods.  I was happy to make par!

[Mike_Cirba]

JZook,

I'll double-check the date of Harrisburg's opening, but I think it was 1916.  Flynn actually designed a few courses prior to his "re-work" of Merion with Wilson in the mid-20s, including Doylestown CC in 1916, as well.

Thanks for asking about Ridgewood.  We had a fantastic day, and you are indeed fortunate to work with/for such fine gentlemen.  Please send them my regards and let Jason know that I'm still looking for an address to send that GCA article to!

[Craig_Rokke]

I figured this would be as good a thread to ask this question as any: Has anyone ever played Eaglesmere CC, a Flynn re-design in upstate PA?

[archie]

Can't do hole by hole but I'll hit on a few that I really like.

#3 Excellent par five that requires more accuracy with each shot. First pretty easy, second a little more exacting, splitting bunkers, and third a gutsy wedge to a plateau green. Green slightly crowned ,as are many here at Indian Creek, and falls off hard in the back left. Even the longest hitters will have trouble hitting this one in two.

#4  real short par four that is rachable for the longest hitters, but the chip shot is really tough if you get close becaus of a false front and a green that falls away from you. Fairway funnels tee shot into middle but unless you hit it left center you get a hanging lie for your wedge. I saw very good players make two and six from almost the same spot on this hole!

#9

Short par 5's or strong par fours, depending on the course set up. Fabulous spectator area behind greens, which come back to the clubhouse. As with any green at Indian Creek, you have to be in the right part of the green, and you can't short side any pins.

#10-13

I like to call this the Bermuda triangle, because invariably something strange happens thru this stretch. Ten is a tough par four, with a trademark Flynn diamond shaped green, but again with a crowned green not unlike Pinehurst #2. I like the greens more than #2 because you need just hit a good , not incredible shot to get in the right quadrant.

#12 is one of the hardest short par threes I have played, at 195 from the back it typically plays into a prevailing wind and requires a striper to hit the green.

#13 is another real short par four that is probably driveable, but I can't imagine anyone could hold it, the green is a smaller version of #3.Intercoastal all along the left, bunkers right.

All in all, Indian Creek might not be much different in quality than Seminole, but doesn't get the same respect. I suppose less people are exposed to it, although Ray Floyd used to spend a lot of time getting ready to go back out on tour here.

The golf course has an awesome interior range, which if original, makes it more architectually brilliant. original... Flynn,

TePaul Thanks for worrying, but I can only lose so much!

[archie]

Pat forgot to answer your question, pretty sure the greens are tifeagle (sp?) an excellent Bermuda with not a lot of grain, even in South Florida. They were in excellent shape and very fast.

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