Steve Smyers

[Peter Pratt]

I am relatively new to gca, but I haven't seen much on Steve Smyers' work. I was planning on playing his new course, LochenHeath, in Traverse City, MI, but I was able to get on the majestic Kingsley Club that day.

Any thoughts on Smyers? Wolf Run looks terribly difficult, but Doak likes it. Southern Dunes? Old Memorial? LochenHeath? Others?

[John_Conley]

Southern Dunes is wonderful, although some are surprised by the setting (a relatively low-end resort and housing development) when they get there because they've heard it is a nice course.

Wentworth is one of his early works and I remember it being quite good.  When you get done you can't believe it is about 6400 yards, but par 70 does the trick.

The site at Old Memorial is probably a D, so he did a GREAT job to get an A course on it.  Definitely worth seeing and a great club.  6900 yard member tees, so they definitly target the better player.

All of these courses have a long total length, but still offer good short par 4s and par 3s of a variety of lengths.

A trusted friend said the one in Michigan was the worst course he'd ever seen and that Smyers "is the worst architect ever", so it is possible that one didn't turn out as planned.  It is a shame he hasn't seen the Smyers courses I've seen because I'm sure he'd like them.

Good luck.  (P.S.  He was on the board as a +5 handicap when I played Old Mem.  I know he is/was a great player, and a very low handicap index is possible there because it is about 7400 yards and rated 77.something from the back tees.  Spider was +7 and Gary Koch +6!!)

[APBernstein]

Peter:

I recently played Four Streams, a 4 year-old Smyers (and Nick Price) effort in Beallsville, MD (about 30 minutes outside DC).

I will start by saying that I gave the course a six (6) on the GOLFWEEK ratings scale.  I think it is obvious from what has been said on this site that this is not his absolute best work, but it was still a solid course.

The members that I played with let me know that the once wild-edged bunkers had been tamed, and now all was seen was relatively clean edges, which was a shame.  Still, the depth of the fairway bunkers proved to be a hazard.

If I had to make one complaint, it would be that the course was overshaped, especially the green complexes.  Smyers created many interesting slopes, often allowing for a run-up shot from well right or left of the green.  However, to do this, he consistently built 10 foot mounds around the green, which looked sorely out of place on the rolling terrain.

That being said, the greens did feature a few nicely done false fronts, which greatly enhanced the play of the rolling contoured greens.

Still worth the play if in the area, but I am looking forward to playing other Smyers courses.

All the best,

[Mark_Fine]

Peter,
Here is an old post on made on Smyers.  FYI Mark

I recently played Blue Heron Pines East, a Smyers design in NJ. I've gotten to play a number of his courses and I've for the most part, enjoyed them all. However, maybe it's just his bunkering style (which is unique to him), but they are starting to look more and more the same to me. Furthermore, many of the holes appear "forced" onto the land and while they are always very strategic, they are very "formulaic" - All his bunkers (which he uses tons of) are carefully placed to provide the golfer interesting choices and risk reward options. And then there is the "line of charm" he always talks about.
What I am trying to say is that his courses are very strategic but all look like they were designed on a CAD system and then just transferred to the respective piece of property. If you've only played one or two of his courses you might not pick up on this but for those of you who have played several what are your thoughts on this?

Maybe he doesn't care because how many of us run around the country playing and comparing different S. Smyers golf courses??
Mark

[Mike Hall]

I had a friend who played LochenHeath and like it, but did say if he had been a higher handicapper he might have had a different opinion.  Said the course had a good routing, was in good shape for a new course, and certainly was challenging.  I think he thought it was sort of a weird place(tourism, second home) to have a hard track, but did like it.  

[john f]

I've loved the Smyers courses I've played (Southern Dunes & Royce Brook). He seems to have a bold streak (especially in the bunkering) in him wich can make for some tough shots. I think he's one of the most under-appreciated guys out there today. There was a very good interview of him recently out on the Web somewhere. Maybe Ran can grab him?

Matt I agree that the course features tend to look the same (isn't the 9th green complex at Southern Dunes the same as the #12 on the Royce West just reversed, cavenous bunker, false front, severely sloped?) but that is not necesarilly a bad thing is it? Seemed to recall that Raynor used this idea to his advantage.

[RJ_Daley]

Peter, Just to be clear, (I can't tell from your post - the way it is worded) Kingsley Club is not Smyers.  It is DeVries...

[Mike_Cirba]

I've played three Smyers courses and liked them all.  The best of the 3 is Blue Heron Pines East, although my good friend BillV will argue the merits of Royce Brook West.

His bunkering style is VERY strategic, and visually distinctive.  He does a lot of "line of charm" stuff, and his green complexes generally tie in very well to fairway and hazard orientation.

He's one of the guys whose work I definitely would seek out, and I'm hoping to make it to Four Streams next year.  

[Peter Pratt]

RJ: Sorry for the lack of clarity--yes, I knew DeVries did TKC.

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
Do you see a sameness to his style?  I've only played I beleive four of his courses and they are very similar.  I'm not saying that is bad.  I'm just saying a lot of the holes look the same to me.  Yes this might be a bit of a stretch but swap a few holes from Blue Heron Pines and Old Memorial and half the golfers/members probably wouldn't even notice  
Mark

[Mike_Cirba]

Mark,

There is no question but that his bunkering style (scalloped waves, somewhat in the style of a Royal Melbourne) is "distinctive", and probably repetitive.

However, because his style is supplanted with significant substance and strategic interest, I tend to be less concerned.  Not to mention, I think his style looks pretty darn good, at times verging on artistically dramatic, and is generally devoid of lots of artificial mounding and mass earth-moving.  

[Mike Hall]

I wonder if anyone else out there has seen LochenHeath, as my friend said it was good, but John Conley's friend said it was horrible.  Most of the posts here are favorable to Smyers, just wondering since LochenHeath is one of his latest if we can get more info.  Be interesting to see if he is "evolving" into different things, or, if the two people with opinions on LochenHeath just have different standards on good/bad.

[SPDB]

I've played both Royce Brook courses and I remember hating both of them. I can't exactly remember why, maybe it was the excessive and extraneous bunkering on one of them. I do remember vowing never to return to Royce Brook.

[Peter Pratt]

I've walked about 6 holes of LochenHeath and found it dramatic and very difficult. Elevated greens surrounded by bunkers, and these were not just on shorter holes. I never really get a good sense of a course until I play it, but I saw enough to want to play it.

[John_Conley]

I forgot to mention that, when I asked for specifics, most of my friend's comments about Lochenheath seemed related to one hole that involved blind shots.  I haven't seen it so I won't comment, and I'm not really able to relay second-hand what his gripe was since I couldn't quite tell myself.

By comparison, he did like Arcadia Bluffs.

[Jeff_Stettner]

I've played three Smyers courses and found them all to be better than most modern work. The best was Chart Hills, a partnership effort with Nick Faldo (Faldo's first design). The bunkering was dramatic, the routing compelling and the greens full of fun little humps and hollows. I ended up playing a few holes with Colin Montgomerie who was shooting a Lays potato chip commercial that day, and it was fun to watch a pro have to think about his shots.
The other two, Olde Memorial and Southern Dunes have both been mentioned above and I have little to add. I will say that, like Chart Hills, the bunkering was the key to both courses standout designs.

[BillV]

Maybe his bunkering is a bit on the formulaic side but is certainly less repetitive than Pete Dye's use of railroad ties fergodzsake.  He really places them well, though.  His green complexes are really really good.  They are really first rate at Royce Brook West and also at my pal Mike's more favoritte Blue Heron Pines.  

Even if Mark Fine will criticize this post when I am on vacation and can't defend it. (Mousetown, here we come), maybe Mike will.

Smyers needs a good piece of land.  Pardon me, but every course I have seen of his so far totals 5 feet of elevation change.  All 3 together.  They're all solid courses, the least good as good as most Fazio and better than much of Reese's.

(Blue Heron Pines and Royce Brook are on land so devoid of contour that Delaware refused the land because it was too flat and had it shipped to NJ!)

If some of his bunkers at Royce Brook West Qualify as EyeCandy, then all EyeCandy should be so good. (Pre-emptive strike on my good friend mark)  

In all seriousness, I certainly should see more of Smyer's work, but I certainly would seek it out based upon the three I have seen.

[ed_getka]

Peter,
I can't help with Smyer's courses, but what did you think of Kingsley? I'm playing there in the spring. Mike is doing restoration work out here near SF at the Meadow Club which is an old Mackenzie course. The holes he has worked on so far are outstanding.

[Mark_Fine]

I think the pros of Smyers work out weighs the cons.  Bill's point about the property he has been given could be a valid one.  Of the four Smyers courses I've seen, none have been built on top notch terrain.  However, I still contend his designs are somewhat forced and formulaic, much more so than someone like Pete's.  And his bunker style is just not completely to my tastes.  It may be more the quantity than the quality!  Old Memorial has bunkers everywhere you look!

[Peter Pratt]

Bill V, I haven't played a Smyers' course, but from walking 6 holes of LochenHeath, I can assure you that he (finally?) got a nice piece of land to work with.

Ed, the Kingsley Club is absolutely superb. For its variety and beauty, I can say no more than the course review on this website. You are in for a treat. Make sure you walk it, even though it is pretty hilly in spots. It's an encylopedia of green sites, so varied and interesting are they. Not having played Lost Dunes, I'd place it 3rd or 4th best in Michigan, behind Crystal Downs and Oakland Hills and on a par with High Pointe, and ahead of Arcadia Bluffs, Indianwood, Bay Harbor, the Gailes, Franklin Hills, et al. The true test of a great golf course for me is that, with each new playing, you have a different favorite hole. I've played Kingsley only once and High Pointe many times, so I've come to love almost every hole at HP and I haven't had that chance at TKC.

[Ran Morrissett]

Wolf Run is a wonderful, wonderful design that has become more enjoyable for many levels of players over time as the rough was thinned and as short game interest was introduced.

I don't talk about it much however on this site because people from that state claim that it is amongst the softest playing courses in the area. I'll never forget a shot that I hit into the 10th green that splashed to a halt a few yards short of the green - yuk.

I haven't heard anything in the past year - perhaps things are better?

[Derek_Duncan]

As appropriate to this thread, here's a link to an interview I did with Steve Smyers earlier this year.  I found him to be very earnest and passionate about his architectural views.
http://www.travelgolf.com/smyers1.htm

[Matt_Ward]

I've played a few Smyers designs. They are:

*Wolf Run
*Southern Dunes
*Both at Royce Brook
*Four Streams
*Old Memorial
*Blue Heron Pines / East

I enjoy his style but felt Royce Brook was just a tad overdone -- especially the West.

Blue Heron Pines East is one of Jersey's best public -- Jersey Golfer had it at #2. I know Mike Cirba believes it should have done better especially since Pine Hill got the top spot! I credit Smyers for a job well done with the site although I do agree with Bill V. that the last hole is devoid of character and is just a long closer (470 yards plus par-4).

I really like Southern Dunes because of the sweeping nature of the holes. When I first played the course I just marvelled at the way in which Smyers framed holes using the land provided.

Andrew Bernstein:

Good comments on Four Streams. I really liked the course and as an FYI there was initial talk the course was going to be public, but given the original savage nature of the bunkers it would have been a long tedious trek for many golfers. I'm sorry to hear that many of the bunkers have been "beautified."

Ran:

You're absolutely right about Wolf Run. It's time the membership started to turn off the water. Great layout that probably got a bad wrap because the focus was so much on its initial difficulty which it certainly is. There's more though to the course than just that feature.

Final item -- Steve Smyers is a very personable and interesting man to speak with. I also credit him with being a fine player as a former member of the Gators when Kock and Bean were team members.

Regards,

[Steve Smyers]

LochenHeath was designed to be a thorough examination of one’s golfing talents and abilities.  The course is not penal but very strategic.  One must be able not only to be a proficient shot-maker but also be able to read the course.  Understanding always that there are several ways to attack each and every hole.  Depending on the wind, firmness of ground, lie of ball, position of the ball / stance, and one’s own abilities, one of several options should be chosen.  The key is to understand your own ability and select the appropriate shot for the occasion.

As for “blind shots” (there are two landing areas which cannot be seen from the tee, #1 and #15), by simply reading the course, looking at the ground, the line of choice can easily be selected.  Using your imagination and trusting your swing are the keys to successfully negotiating these two pivotal shots.

LochenHeath is a multi-dimensional course that can easily be negotiated by players of all abilities, if they understand how to properly manage their own game.  

I not only want to test one’s shot-making ability but the ability to feel the wind, read the ground and imagine – and react and play the golf course accordingly.  

As for the gentleman, Andrew Bernstein, who had a dislike for the course – Friend, I can only relate the story that when Bobby Jones first played The Old Course at St. Andrews, he walked off in disgust and vowed never to return.  He did return several times and, in his farewell speech, he said that he loved The Old Course and the more he studied it, the more he loved it and the more he loved it the more he studied it.  

And Andrew, very little dirt was moved at 4 Streams.  A few greens were built into a hillside, which helped develop the strategy of the golf holes.

[Mike_Cirba]

Steve Smyers,

Welcome to the site!  

As mentioned above, I've enjoyed playing your courses a great deal and hope you visit here when you're able.

I would point out that I didn't think Andrew Bernstein's points above were particularly overly critical.  He did have some good things to say about Four Streams, and his rating of "6" translates to borderline Top 100 Modern courses in the country on the "Golfweek" scale.  That's pretty darn good, I'd imagine.

On another note, since many of your courses share such distinctive bunkering, could you share with us your philosophy re: the look, playability, and strategic purposes of your bunkering?