[Mike_Cirba]

Jim;

I know little about Ocean Trails other than it seems to be one of Pete Dye's more dubious efforts.  

However, I have to wonder if something more formally planned would have actually survived the effects of massive land-slide into the ocean.  Wasn't this simply an unfortunate incident due to unforeseen elements, or is this something that should have/could have been avoided with better, more fastidious planning?  

Are you suggesting that the course shouldn't have been built so close to fragile areas?  Wouldn't Dye have been seeking to maximize the layout strategically and aesthetically by building oceanfront holes?  Would other architects have resisted the temptation to create golf on the edge, so to speak?

[Jeff Fortson]

If I had the money to buid a course there would be one person I would pick for the job if he would take it.....

Tommy Naccarato


I am 100% confident that if I gave him the property, the resources, and the great people in the business to help him actually do the manual work, that I'd be 110% satisfied with his creation.  There is no doubt in my mind on this.

So Tommy, after I win the lottery or win the Grand Slam and reap in tremendous endorsement money, will you take the job?

Jeff F.

[jim__janosik]

Mike,

For artistic reasons a decision was made to install drain line below the water level of the offensive lake in question but the installation wasn't engineered properly or installed properly which caused leakage. Also faulty installation other drain lines
led to leaks which caused the lad to slide.  Thats how the attorney's saw it. If you put florazine in a body of water then
take a black light you can trace where the water is coming from if there is a leek.  Dye threatened to pull his name off of the project if he got drawn into any legal proceeding.

JJ

[A_Clay_Man]

Is anyone that familiar with the CCC that they could explain How OT was permitted and the Goleta project took ten years to be denied?

[Steve_L.]

I've worked around the edges of the CCC a few years ago, and know it is a terribly difficult process, very expensive, with no assurance of approval.  The erosion issue at OT is conspicuous, but is a only a minor piece of the process puzzle...  

Others may have more first hand information/experience - fortunately I don't!

[Carlos_Febres]

I dig up the mound on the 12th hole at Merion, resurrect Hugh Wilson, and pay him his standard fee from 1912.  

[Tom_Doak]

I'd love to throw my name in but we're pretty busy already.

"A stick in the dirt won't do" is a crock.  Such projects are often completed for a lot less money than the full plans approach.  Look at the budgets for our courses, or Bill Coore's, compared with Arnie!

But most municipalities don't understand the process so they can't see it that way.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Bureaucrats love to complicate things.

Which reminds me, Rod Whitman and I recently proposed to do some bunker work on an existing classic course owned by a municipality.

We have a crew that can carry out the work for less money than any golf architect/contractor combo that'll likely bid for the same job. And, of course, one of our selling points is that the quality of the work will be superior to that of others because either Rod and/or I will be on-site consistently throughout the project, rake and shovel in-hand.

Our proposed methodolgy is terribly confusing to the bureaucrats involved. They just can't understand how we can 'restore' the bunkers in question without a set of CAD drawings and a contractor for such comparatively little money.

Some of the same bureaucrats involved with the operation of this golf course have, in recent years, authorized millions of taxpayer dollars for architectural renderings and engineering services for a proposed ice hockey arena that now looks like it'll never be built!

And, of course, I'm sure that when we tell them, 'Yeah, we'll be restyling the bunkers personally,' they see as 'ditch diggers', not so-called 'golf course architects'! The architects aren't supposed to be toiling in the field!

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

A Clayman,

I'd take each archie out to the site and see who spends the most time has the most passion about it and then I'd pick him or her.

How do you distinguish passion from promotion ?

[Joe Hancock]

Pat,

When the archie says "this is one of the best sites I've ever seen", it's promotion.

Joe

[A_Clay_Man]

Pat- Good question. I'd say there in lies the secret to life. The ability to smell the bullshit. A good nose knows. Usually thru a series of strategically placed questions and hypothetical challenges. But the real test is time. If the hyperboized promotion comes to quick or too easy, thats another clue someone is looking up your address, or blowin smoke up it.

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