Now we'll do the best Short Par 4 in golf,vote...

« **on:** February 20, 2003, 12:38:20 PM »

Last week we had a good discussion regarding the best short Par 3 in golf and we had quite a few people vote for Cypress #15, Sand Hills #17, and Shinnecock #11. What do you think is the ultimate short Par 4? These may be my favorite holes in the world, the ultimate risk/reward golf holes. You can birdie them, but also easily make a double bogie. Here are some candidates:

Crystal Downs #17
Cypress Point #9
Cuscowilla #5
Lahinch #13
Pacific Dunes #6
Chechessee Creek #12
Kingsley Club #13
Maidstone #7
National Golf Links #1
Pine Valley #8, #17
Riviera #10
Royal Dornoch #17
Rustic Canyon #7

Feel free to offer other suggestions. I think I have to vote for the 13th at the Kingsley Club, it has everything. The opportunity to knock it on and have a go at eagle but lots of trouble around the green as well. Just what a short Par 4 should be.

« **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2003, 12:50:42 PM »

NGLA #17 . . . . or #2.

« **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2003, 12:58:51 PM »

For just straight architecture--not something like great natural landform and natural features--it's Riviera's #10 by a mile. Nothing else in the world can touch it that way.

For the best short par 4 in the world that's basically all natural landform and natural feature and almost zero man-made architecture--Cypress's #9 by a mile.

But for other reasons my personal favorite short par 4 anywhere--Maidstone's #17!!! Just it's placement alone really makes it too. It's a real birdie hole and I can't tell you how often there's no doubt that's exactly what you have to do.

« **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2003, 01:00:03 PM »

TOC, #12

« **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2003, 01:11:55 PM »

I'll add a few more to the list to choose from:

Pine Valley GC #12

Merion GC, many to choose from: #1,7,8,11

Also...by today's equipment standards, what do you now consider a "short" par 4?

« **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2003, 01:43:07 PM »

I don't know what the best is but I feel obliged to mention one I really like...

The 14th at Barona Creek. 316yds/275/224 From the tee several attack routes are possible using several different clubs. I saw a feller foozle off to the right then clobber a good shot out of the rough, over the big clump of rocks short right of the green thinking that he'd sailed off into oblivion with it only to realize when he got to the green his ball lay there like a well trained Cocker Spaniel. What this tells me is that recovery can be made from just about anywhere (I am biased to the Scrambler side) on the hole but choices by percentages can be used. And don't forget about the wicked false front that'll bring the ball right back to yer feet.
The bunkers are shaped like the random cumalos in the sky above you.

To view and get the pro tip click on . . .

http://www.barona.com/golf/tips/hole14.htm

Dornoch's 17th is 405. Is that considered short these days? It's 15th is terrific- 358yrds/288. A solitary dune lies in the path but playable from behind it, albeit blind to green. Fun hole.

« **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2003, 02:35:24 PM »

It's my home course, so I will say the 7th and 18th at Olympic ...

I dare anyone to play #18 at Olympic needing a par to win with 10,000 fans watching from the hill (with the old green configuration).

Mike

« **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2003, 02:39:32 PM »

Of the ones I've seen I would say the 17th at Crystal Downs.

I would also add the 17th at Southern Hills as a very fine hole.

« **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2003, 02:49:45 PM »

#9#9#9#9
and then
#7 Sand Hills
#2 Spyglass Hill
#4 " "
#3 Pebble Beach
#2 Spanish Bay
#13 Pacific Grove
Enough of my bias

« **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2003, 02:55:12 PM »

#5 at Friar's Head, #7 at Sand Hills are worthy of consideration. Can't wait to someday play #5 at FH downwind. One of FH #5's best features is that one could play that hole over and over again using different clubs and angles and never get tired of hitting those shots in different ways.

« **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2003, 03:08:17 PM »

Some great choices.

I'd add #3 at Pinehurst #2 to the list. That's one tough wedge shot for the approach.

Maybe a notch below but Fenway #15 is always among my favorite short par 4's.

« **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2003, 03:12:33 PM »

Pinehurst #2 #3
Augusta National #3
Forest Creek #8
Pine Valley #8

« **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2003, 03:16:58 PM »

Number 1 at the Mens Club!!!!!

« **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2003, 03:31:45 PM »

Nothing better than putting for eagle on a par-4! I think that happened to me once...

I think my favorite is the 17th at Oakmont. I've played it about 30 times, went for the green each time, drove it on the putting surface exactly once, whiffed an 8-foot eagle putt but made my birdie, which didn't make up for the bogey or worse I made every other time I played it!

Many of my other favorites are in the UK and Ireland:
8 at Cruden Bay
2 at Muirfield
13 at North Berwick (The Pit!)
16 at Prestwick (really just a long par 3 over the Cardinal Bunker!)
10 at Elie (completely blind, hit my driver over the green into the Firth of Forth!)
4 at Crail (driveable over a corner of the North Sea)
1 at Royal Dornoch
8 on the new Kintyre Course at Turnberry (highlight of the course by far)
6 at Ballybunion (great green!)
13 at Lahinch
15 at Old Head
14 at The Island (fairway 10 paces wide!)
13 at Royal Lytham
12 on the Old Course
18 on the Old Course (can't leave that one off!)
14 on the Kings Course at Gleneagles
1 and 3 at The Machrie

...I could go on and on!

« **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2003, 03:34:04 PM »

I concur with Jim's inclusion of #3 at ANCG. It is often overlooked. Rarely seen on TV. A wonderful short par 4 that usually plays as tough against par as many of the longer, more famous par 4's at ANGC.

In addtion to #5 at Cuscowilla, #12 is a terrific hole. After having played it 15 or so times, I'm still not sure of how best to approach the green.

Bob

« **Reply #15 on:** February 20, 2003, 03:38:18 PM »

#7 at Sand Hills and #9 at Cypress get my top vote.

In Second Place:

#16 Royal County Down
#8 Royal Melbourne West

Runner's Up:

#9 Garden City
#5 Oakmont
#12 Cruden Bay

« **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2003, 03:52:41 PM »

#14 New South Wales- words can't describe it and Ran's picture does not do it justice.

« **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2003, 04:09:06 PM »

OK. Since three holes at Dornoch have been mentioned, each of which is great (even though one of them (17) is not at all short), I should toss in the best short-4 on that track which is the 5th. 1 and 2 at NGLA, 8 and 9 at CPC, etc. pale in comparison to that hole, IMHO.

« **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2003, 04:21:56 PM »

Crystal Downs #17 by a slim nose over Cypress #9

Unknown courses: #10 Stafford CC (Rochester area), very very similar strategy as #10 at Riviera. Fall away green is incredibly deceiving.

« **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2003, 05:35:48 PM »

My two favorite are:
From the well known category:

#11 at Merion - There are so many things that can wreak havoc on this hole. I can't tell you how many times I have been forced to go at this green from off the downslope. It is nearly impossible.

From the sleeper:

#13 at Piping Rock - look at Ran's write-up, although it won't tell the story. One of the few Knoll holes built by Raynor/MacD. Like most treacherous short par 4s, the challenge is at the green-end.

Other shorties that get me:

Pine Valley#8(L) - the lie always gets me.
Pine Valley#17 - psychological intimidation off the tee, with trouble seemingly lurking everywhere.
NGLA#1 - the most exciting way to start off a round.
Seminole #12
CPC#9
Maidstone#17
World Wood (PB) - #15

Not so well known:

The Creek - #10 & 15 (great hogsback green)
Eastward Ho! - #12
Fenway - #15

« **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2003, 05:43:38 PM »

How about Royal Melbourne West #10?

« **Reply #21 on:** February 20, 2003, 07:02:54 PM »

JimmyVA,

I'm with A Silis and Shivas, especially since both holes are the opening holes, the introduction to the golf course.

Shivas,

What were you thinking of ?
Leave # 1 and # 17 right where they are.
Next you'll want to shift # 8 and # 16

« **Reply #22 on:** February 20, 2003, 07:15:57 PM »

My vote is for #16 at Cypress Point.

The reason it is the best short par-4 is that somebody misprinted the scoredcard, inducing thousands of golfers to play it in the incorrect manner.

« **Reply #23 on:** February 20, 2003, 07:20:52 PM »

I'm probably in the vast minority but to tell you the truth I never really got Crystal Downs #17. And I love really short multi optional holes where there're all kinds of things to do and choose from. But with CD's #17 I always felt on the tee--what in the hell is there really to do here? I think a few times I hit what I thought was a reasonable tee shot and the ball sort of caroomed left almost into the woods.

« **Reply #24 on:** February 20, 2003, 07:28:27 PM »

Number 11 at Augusta National with my ProV1x. Tough decision whether or not to layup off the tee to avoid the lake on the left!!!

Ok, really - I haven't played too many of the worlds best - but I like #13 at the Coeur d' Alene. Great in terms of shot values - and if that was the Pacific Ocean on the left instead of Lake Coeur d' Alene it would be very well known...

News:

Jimmy Muratt

Gib_Papazian

TEPaul

TomSteenstrup

JS

Slag_Bandoon

Mike Benham

Chris_Clouser

A_Clay_Man

brad miller

GeoffreyChilds

jim_lewis

Andy Silis

JEFlynnJr

BCrosby

Steve Lapper

corey miller

ForkaB

ian

SPDB!

Chris Kane

Patrick_Mucci

John_McMillan

TEPaul

Steve L.

An Error Has Occurred!