When's the last time you actually played one ?

[ForkaB]

Bob H

Please talk us through your hole-in-one on the 4th at MPCC Dunes.  Did you use the ground game or the aerial game?  If the former, did you have the pleasure of seeing your ball land, disappear, reappear and then disappear again for good?  Was this BR (Before Rees) or AR?  If the latter, does it really count, from a GCA purist point of view, of course.........?

Respectfully

Rihc

[John_Conley]

John Conley,

Somerset, as in Somerset Hills, or Somerset, Pa, or some other Somerset, could you provide the specifics ?

The 12th at Somerset Hills is a short par 3 with a slightly tilted green, with no swale.

Somerset as in Somerset.  Tips at almost 230, water left of the green, immense ditch in the middle of the green.  I don't know why the geocentric New York/New Jersey people don't understand the difference between Somerset Hills and Somerset.  (  Second time this has happened, so you aren't the only one.)  I caddied once for a guy who got me an undrinkable concoction when I ordered Grape juice & Ginger Ale.  Grape, grapefruit - what's the diff?

If you haven't played, Somerset is a great place, club, and golf course.  I don't think enough people have seen it or you would see more interest when conversations about Raynor courses come up.  Midland Hills and Minnesota Valley are other area courses attributed to Raynor, but neither compares to Somerset.

It is located near St. Paul.

[Andrew_Roberts]

Well the last time I played a Biarritz?
Well that's funny I've never played one.

[Bob_Huntley]

Rich.

Bless you for being my straight man.

The ace was pure Raynor, before Rees.

A three wood through the air, two bounces and into the cup. It was in 1982, orange ball (I shudder to think of it now) that I promptly lost in the stream on the ninth hole.

Rees did indeed bring the Biarritz back to the hole for which I am eternally grateful.

[TEPaul]

Bob Huntley:

Didn't you know that all holes in one with orange balls have been formally canceled? Matter of fact most of Wayne Levi's career has been canceled too.

[corey miller]

Sleepy Hollow on the "short" course has a biarritz that was once part of the original 18.  The hole is ~200 yards with a significant downhill drop.  I do not know how the swale was maintained long ago but there is no place for a ball to stop in front of the swale as the terrain is severe.

Currently, the swale is fairway and kept to soft as there is a drainage problem that Ken Dye is set to address in his plan.  Even soft a ball can roll through and fall off the back which is five feet below the green.

The tee for this hole is also the closest to a prior holes green that I have ever seen as the green slopes in this direction and the ball often rolls off on this side where there is a five foot drop to the next tee.  The drop is flush against the green.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Adam Messix,

You mentioned the 14th hole at Everglades as a Biarritz, but for some reason, I can't remember it.

Does it have a pronounced swale or a minor swale ?
How big is the green ?
Are both tiers mowed to green ?
Was this done recently or was it always there ?

Thanks

[Forrest Richardson]

As we are speaking about the Biarritz it seems fitting to relate a quote from Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf. I apologize in advance to my French friends, with whom I have shared plenty of laughs about Americans, all of which were sort of funny.

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."  — Norman Schwarzkopf

[SPDB]

As we are speaking about the Biarritz it seems fitting to relate a quote from Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf. I apologize in advance to my French friends, with whom I have shared plenty of laughs about Americans, all of which were sort of funny.

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."  — Norman Schwarzkopf

You quote Jed Babbin, not Schwarzkopf. The conclusion is even better ..."you just leave a lot of noisy, useless baggage behind."

[Forrest Richardson]

Well, I was told it was Norman...but I'll trust your word. And the conclusion.

[ron]

You are correct about the Biarritz green at Arcadia on the #5 hole. It is to my knowledge the only green of its type on a par 5. It works because it makes the player really think about the proper shot strategy when faced with the possibility of being faced with a certain 3- putt if the pin is "up".
Another great Biarritz is found at Shoreacres in Chicago,a great Seth Raynor course. A par 3 which, if I remember correctly, is 90 yds from the front to the back of the green.

[Tom_Egan]

Pat --

Thanks for starting this thread - lots of really good stuff here!

It's been 25 years since I played about a dozen rounds on the Banks course at Forsgate.  My memory is that the 17th was a Biarritz, but maybe that's incorrect.  I dont remember the usual swale crossing the green.  Otherwise it seemed to have all the proper characteristics.

Can you enlighten me?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Egan,

I have to confess that I can't remember the exact configuration of the green.

Perhaps George Bahto or Matt Ward can help us.

George, Matt, are you out there ?

Tom, what I find really strange is, that many of the old great courses that this group loves have Biarritz's, yet there's no clamor to build Biarritz's on new courses from the same group.

[A_Clay_Man]

Tom/Bob- I always thought that orange aces required buying everyone two drinks while wearing your hat??

Back to topic- I'd swear I played one(biarittz) on the Pate course in La Quinta. But it really is all just a blurr. Can anyone confirm or deny that there is a biarittz there?