Pajaro's Best?

[A_Clay_Man]

For those recently de-flowered and for those familiar, what hole at Pajaro Valley did you think was:

The Best golf hole?

The toughest hole?

The prettiest hole?

While it's been awhile I have fond memories of the 11th as being a real favorite for me. The evergreen trees that visually frame the small hourglass shaped green always made me pucker with both delight and trepidation. A true warm-up for the difficult 12th.

BTW hows the new green on 12? Still love the baachouse

[THuckaby2]

Ahhh, Pajaro Valley.  It's always been a fave of mine, even before Pete's tenure... now that he has it in great shape, there's just that much more reason to trek down to Royal Oaks.  I typically play there 3-4 times a year and wish I got down there more.

So....

Best golf hole:  I'm with you, Adam, I like 11.  That green is diabolical and with the typical cross-wind it is one damn interesting tee shot.  The inevitable pitches on are very tough also given the severely tiered hourglass green... It is just a beautiful, tough, bewitching par3.

Toughest hole:  will always be 12.  New green actually makes it a little easier, as Pete has removed the horrific tier that used to be there and removed the left bunker... making the greensite much better than what was there before - it now sits into the hill quite beautifully and while it does have a sharp back to front slope, it's nothing like what the tier used to cause... in any case it's a long tough hole requiring two well-struck shots to get there - you need a draw off the tee and a fade coming in - very tough, very cool.  Great hole.

Prettiest hole:  I vote for 16, at least once you get to the hill before the green... I just dig how that green sits out by itself with the slough behind.

We had a very fun day there, even with a little rain.

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

How about that 4th hole? Strategy off the tee defines the term options. And that green with it's three(?) bunkers gaurding every conceivable line of charm.

The 8th also is one motha of a par 4. Of course I've seen Pete make it look easy.

Clearly some great underated golf can be found at PVGC.

[THuckaby2]

4 is a wonderful hole without a doubt.  They've always had some trouble keeping that green in decent shape, and Pete has it pretty good now.  In the rain playing balata and persimmon the other day, all strategy was removed as we could hit it as hard as we wanted and not reach the first bunker... But in "normal" golf, oh yes, placement of the tee shot is very key.  A big shot can reach that green, particularly from the whites... but man do you take a risk as there is nothing but gloom and doom in all three of those bunkers and a miss right is no bargain either - that's a bitchy chip down and along the hill and slope.

8 also is a great hole, and get this:  Pete seems to have planted three little trees right in the crook of the dogleg on the left.  They're no huge issue now - the normal shortcut through that way still works - but when those grow up, 8 is gonna surpass 12 as toughest hole on the course.  It's pretty close now as it is given the length and the tough green....

Oh yes, LOTS of fine golf at Pajaro - nice people and good prices too!

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

Tom-I'm sure Pete can tell us better, but as I recall the master plan, the hole that will be placed on the ground that is the current 8th, will go in the exact opposite direction. So those trees will go from being on the left to being on the right when their big enough to matter. I love forward thinking.

[THuckaby2]

Aha!  That is fine forward thinking... but given how long that master plan is taking to get approved, ... and given how well the trees are gonna work on the current #8, well.... let's just say Pete wins either way here!  

TH

[Peter Galea]

Thanks for the kind words. I did NOT plant those 3 redwoods on #8. I hope to be remembered for removing useless trees, as Tillie is remembered for removing useless bunkers.

[THuckaby2]

Aha again!  So what is the thinking on those trees, Pete?  Are the being put in for the new hole in the master plan?  You gotta admit that if the hole stays as it is, they are gonna make 8 one bitch of a hole when they grow up...  of course a few deep bunkers in that crook would have a better effect... am I sensing you might have lost an argument there?

TH

[Mike Benham]

I like the par 3's, specifically the 7th and 11th.  When I last played Pajaro 12-years ago, the back tee wasn't there (at least I don't think it was) and if you miss a little right of the green, you are over the fence.

My only complaint is that  3, 11, and 14 are all about the same length, which when you are playing with 7 clubs, is probably not a bad thing  

[THuckaby2]

Damn right it was a good thing the other day, Mike.  The other day in the rain 3, 11 and 14 were each a little punch cut persimmon 3wood for me!  Hit all three greens... I'm now fully in love with that shot.  

They are each around 180 yards though, you're right.  The good thing is though that they are go in different directions, so with any wind (and you almost always have some), you have three very different shots even though the distances are the same.

TH

[ForkaB]

I like the 2nd, with the drive that is a lot narrower than it looks, particularly given the great green site with it's narrow entrance and hidden left to right slope.

This whole exercise shows me that there are a whole lot of golf courses out there that just need a bit of TLC to make them lots of fun and challenge to play.  Design wise, Pajaro is good, but probably not in the top 50 in Nor Cal (that's a tough group to get in, BTW).  Nevertheless, it is a great golfing experience.  Isn't that more important at the end of the day than the pedigree of the course?

[THuckaby2]

I like the 2nd, with the drive that is a lot narrower than it looks, particularly given the great green site with it's narrow entrance and hidden left to right slope.

This whole exercise shows me that there are a whole lot of golf courses out there that just need a bit of TLC to make them lots of fun and challenge to play.  Design wise, Pajaro is good, but probably not in the top 50 in Nor Cal (that's a tough group to get in, BTW).  Nevertheless, it is a great golfing experience.  Isn't that more important at the end of the day than the pedigree of the course?

YES!  This ought to be my golf mantra.  Thank you Mr. Goodale.

Good call re #2 also, another great hole.

TH

[Peter Galea]

One of my favorites is the short par 4, #18 (377 yds.). The green sits at fairway level, actually a foot or two below the landing area. Bunkered at the sides, the opening in front is fairly generous. THe green actually falls away in front to the center then it rises up slightly and to the left. Front pins are tough to get at (the run up is a option here), and rear positions offer a good left to right break. If I remember correctly, Rhic (the claw) Goodale rolled in a good one for 3 on the first "Fast Play Wednesday."

[Matt_Ward]

Can someone provide the following on Pajaro Valley?

Location?
Yardage from tips?
CR from tips?
Slope from tips?

Is it worth planning a trip -- I hope to be in the immediate area of NoCal when I visit my brother in Reno later this Spring.

Thanks ...

P.S. On the Doak scale would anyone venture a number?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Matt,

Here's the AOTD thread with Pajaro Valley first.  Scroll down to near bottom for more info.

EDIT:  Whoops, forgot to post the link:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/YaBB.cgi?board=GD1&action=display&num=1047650911


It's between Santa Cruz and Monterey, but east of main road that connects the two, in Watsonville.

I know how much you like tough/long tests, but I don't believe PV fits that mold.  It's not long, at least.

[Mike Benham]

I'm staring at the scorecard ...

Blues  69.5, 118
Whites  68.3, 116

Royal Oaks is located just southeast of Watsonville in the heart of artichoke country.

If you are coming to the Monterey Peninsula to play, the other name courses (Pasatiempo, etc.) should be tops on the list.  Pajaro offers a good value, is fun but challenging none the less.

I heard the breakfast was superb ...

http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?BFCat=&Pyt=Tmap&newFL=Use+Address+Below&addr=&csz=royal+oaks%2C+ca&Country=us&Get%A0Map=Get+Map

[THuckaby2]

Matt:

If you have some time when you visit NorCal, please do contact me - I'd love to finally meet you and play some golf.

Re Pajaro, I'm with Scott - I don't think it will be your "cup of tea".  It's par 72, rating 69.5, slope 118, 6261 from the tips - and no, that's as far as it can be stretched out.

I find it to be a very fun, very neat, well-conditioned good value - a fine local course for us.  But for you as a seeker of national context, well... it's not gonna make any magazine lists unless someone does a top 100 fun places with great hosts.

I don't do Doak Scale... refresh me as to how that goes and I'll be happy to give you my idea for a number.  I'd say it's worth playing for sure for locals, but I'd only point out-of-towners to it if they want a fun, friendly round at a good price.  There are no wonders of design there or anything, it's just good plain fun golf.  Gosh I mean no offense to Pete Galea when I say this, I do so love the place, but I'd have to guess even he might agree with this... Rich is right, at the end of the day a fun golf experience is all that matters.  So go there if that's what you want...

I just don't think that's what you're after, is it, Matt?

TH

[Matt_Ward]

Tom H:

Contrary to what you may think of me -- I'm always interested in fun places with fun people.

Yes, I do write and speak about the "best" places to play but there's always other layouts worthy of keeping in mind when in a certain neighborhood.

Yes, I'd love to hook up. When my travel plans take me to NoCal I'll give you a shout and maybe we can hook up. Just one thing Tom -- you have to promise me you'll only play with 10 clubs!

[THuckaby2]

Ha!  Good one, Matt.  The state of my game these days, 10 clubs will probably serve me better.  Let's make it happen!

And I don't mean to overstate what I believe is your "cup of tea."  I just think that if you're coming 3000 miles, unless you have a LOT of time, well.... you're gonna want to see several other of our courses before Pajaro, if courses are what you are coming to see.

If you have time for a fun round with some good people, then hell yes, Pajaro is a blast, I'll meet ya there.  You have however indicated a predilection for long courses that test the driver, and well... Pajaro is neither of those things also... so other venues would seem to be better suited for you even in that context.  

Does this make better sense?

TH

[Bob_Huntley]

There is nothing wrong with Pajaro that a re-routing couldn't fix. I must say that had I not been playing with Ed Getka I would have been teeing off on the wrong hole a number of times. That said, the place has the makings of a serious golf course. I did not have time to discuss it with him, but Gib Papazian has, I know, some ideas on this matter.

As for the greens, Pete Galea has done a splendid job. The rain slowed them up somewhat but I'm sure they could get up the Stimp very easily.

[THuckaby2]

Bob - the master plan we're speaking of here is VERY impressive... the whole thing get's re-done and 9 great holes are added, to the south out towards the slough... let's all hope this gets done, and then this whole conversation might take a very different tone - we'd make SURE Matt and others see it!

TH

[Todd_Eckenrode]

I haven't been there in years, but used to play there every Sunday morning at the crack of dawn with my sted-dad and his cronies.  Have there already been changes?  In my day, #4 was a par 5 on top of the hill, and #5 was the driveable par 4.

I always loved #5 for it's fun of giving the green a go.  Holes that felt real natural to me were always #1 and #8 with a big feel to them in scale, and pronounced slopes in the driving areas.  One problem always was that the course played so wet, though.  I assume this was due to a clay condition, because there is little lack of surface slope!

I liked #13 as well, with the agressive line down the left that could easily get away from you being so downhill.  #14 is a natural par 3 as well, crest to crest, and sets up well for the predominate wind left to right(at least I think that was the predominate wind).  #17 always provided some thrills as a closing par 5, and I liked the movement of the slopes...hill to hill on the tee shot, with it falling right, then across another swale to the second landing area falling left.  

It certainly has been awhile, and now I'm starting to miss it!  Pete, it sounds like you've done some admirable work.  Hope to see it soon.

[A_Clay_Man]

Todd- Growing up Playing at the crack of dawn must've really lit your fire for all that golf is good.  
There have been many many changes to PV over the years. While Pete could give a detailed description I recall that the second use to be a par five to the current third green. To listen to Charlie talk about it, he recalls when there where holes there that you can't even see evidence of now.

I was once fortunate enough to get a tour of the area that will someday become the new nine, down towards the slough. It reminded me of the definition of linksland in that it apparently has no real use for anything, mostly being a transition zone between the slough/river/ocean and the farmland that sits up on the flats. I love the kettle morraine like rolls to most of the terrain that the course occupies now.