Quarry at Giant's Ridge Update?

[Matthew Schulte]

Jeff:

I see you are logged on.  Will be visiting northern Minnesota this May.  Wondering if you can share any information about how the project is progressing?  The photographs I have seen look wonderful.  I am anxious to visit.  Having designed and enjoyed the success of the first course at Giant's Ridge, what were your goals for the Quarry course?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Matthew,


Grand opening is set for July 27-28.  They will allow limited play just before that, to special guests and frequent customers.  This assumes the weather allows complete grow in.  They had a great fall, but winter snow cover is a bit light, so they may have some winter dessication.

My goals were to make the course completely different as the same architect could make adjacent courses - thus emphasis on the industrial scars vs nature, square vs free form tees, large rolling greens vs small flatter ones, etc.  They also wanted a more difficult course and one that was entirely walkable.  Except for two elevated tees, (I suggested they move some of the old ski lifts over there) it is very walkable.  

As to difficulty, it came back with the highest slope rating in the state, assuming the 20 handicapper would play from the back tees.  From the forward tees, and when the fescues get cut to proper width, I think it will be emminently playable.

If you go to my website, there is a link and/or copies of my Architects Corner series on Cybergolf.com covering the construction of the Quarry.  That explains what - or as some say "What in the hell was I - thinking!  You may note the introduction of my new question and answer series there, "Everything you wanted to know about golf architecture," but for technical reasons, they haven't even got question/answer number one up yet.

So much the better for me.  They are supposed to have gone up at the rate of twice a week, and I have new respect for writers who have to make deadlines.

[BryanC]

Jeff,

I was wondering if you could give us (well, me really) a little info about The Wilderness at Fortune Bay?

[Jeff Shelman]

Jeff,

Here's my question for you on The Quarry: Is it reasonably walkable? I've heard conflicting reports.

Thanks

[Jeff_Brauer]

The Quarry is reasonably walkable.  In fact, it is very walkable, with the exception of two highly elevated championship tees on 5 and 13.  The course does tunnel under 138 before the first and after the 16th hole, but that walk is reasonable.  

If you happen to come up short on the 7th, getting down and out of that Quarry bunker may be a challenge.  I'm not saying it's deep, but down there, your feet get warm, which some say is the heat from the center of the earth.

I plan to walk when I play.  And take an extra club to avoid the quarry bunker on 7.

The Wilderness at Fortune Bay is about 80% grassed, but I anticipate it will open fully in 2004, not this year.  

[Dan Kelly]

The Quarry is reasonably walkable.  In fact, it is very walkable, with the exception of two highly elevated championship tees on 5 and 13.  

I thought you were going to put a T-bar in for that trek up to 5!

It'd be a shame if people use carts at the Quarry only because of one or two painful ascents.

Does any course anywhere offer mechanized transportation for the one or two spots without which the course would be PERFECTLY walkable?

[Jeff_Brauer]

dan,

There are a few.  the Iowa State course has an escalator, I believe, in a similar situation.  I did try to get them to put the tee bar from the ski lift in.  They thought I was joking.  I bet it gets there some day, when they start thinking outside the box a little.  I agree it initially seems goofy, but it would be different, and, as I told them with the footprint bunker on the first course - golfers love that stuff.  It would be another way the quarry would be memorable.

[Jeff_McDowell]

Jeff,

Warning - sarcasm ahead.

Let's be perfectly honest about those "elevated" tees. I've stood on top of one of them, and was afraid to stand near the edge.  I also have a vague recollection about a Texan in a snowmobile suit tumbling head over heals down the slope before tree clearing. Do you care to comment?

In all honesty, what I saw looked great. I can't wait to play the course this summer.

[Jim Sweeney]

Jeff:

Mississuaga CC in Toronto has an open cable car to climb the side of a cliff from one hole to the next. Seattle GC has a rope tow between (I think) #s 11 and 12. So there's plenty pf precedent. If the slope isn't too steep, a rope tow works amazingly well- just a light grip provides an incredible boost. Probably a little less expensive then a T-bar, too.

[texsport]

I've played several courses in Japan with escalators, people moving conveyors, and trolleys to get players to difficult elevated tees, across ravines, or back to the club houses. Of course, since walking is almost mandatory there, some courses have small bag carts on tracks to aid the almost universally utilized lady caddies.

Texsport

[Gary_K]

The Univ. of Iowa course has an escalator/lift between the 13th and 14th holes at Finkbine Golf course in Iowa City.

Gary K.
Iowa class of '92

dan,

There are a few.  the Iowa State course has an escalator, I believe, in a similar situation.  

[Dan Kelly]

The Univ. of Iowa course has an escalator/lift between the 13th and 14th holes at Finkbine Golf course in Iowa City.

Gary -- What kind of an "escalator/lift"? A cable-car kind of deal?

[Gary_K]

It's been a few years since I played at Finkbine.  The lift consists of a platform with two benchs that face each other.  There is enough room for 4 golfers with bags.  Once everyone is on, you hit a button and the platform is pulled up a set of rails by a cable.  The lift moves fairly slow, one can walk up the hill and beat the lift, except you will be out of breath and have a blister or two starting.  Once you get to the top,  the lift automatically returns to the bottom after a few minutes.  

Gary K.

Gary -- What kind of an "escalator/lift"? A cable-car kind of deal?

[Dan Kelly]

Gary K. --

Thanks.

That sounds just like the lifts that the homeowners all have, from their homes down to their boats, on the bluffs side of a beautiful little lake just west of Minneapolis called Christmas Lake. (Named for its "discoverer," James Christmas.)

Just what Giants Ridge needs  -- eh, Jeff? Texsport?

[texsport]

Considering the geographic location of Giants Ridge, any addition to the facility that draws customers should be considered. Key goals should include: preserving the wilderness atmosphere of the place, enhancing the unique character of the Giants Ridge facility, speeding play, and improving safety. Then there's always the course rating game, with points awarded for walkability, which was a consideration during development of The Quarry concept.

I think that Jeff's comment about thinking out of the box is quite revealing. Being the only golf facility of this quality in the area, at least until Fortune Bay opens, along with the fact that it is a state owned resort probably makes the decision makers very cautious about really original innovations.

Northern Minnesota is a pretty small box.

Jeff has already done a great job of convincing the owners to build something truely unique at The Quarry. The lift may be added after a year's operating experience and the collection of comments and suggestions from players.

My trip up is already planned and I can hardly wait.