Ruining Bunkering In the Northeast...

[Patrick_Mucci]

rpurd,

First off, there WILL BE NO APOLOGY for my initial commentary on Mr Prichard's work.  I see that the attacks have continued........rpud and other slurs have been cast again.  I guess whatever floats your boat guys.  

Second, I STAND BY EVERYTHING I INITIALLY SAID.  My contacts at Morris and Nassau are VERY unhappy about the work done by Mr Prichard.......this Cupp discovery at Nassua is news to me and several contacts at the club.  I have seen copies of the work product with Mr Prichard.......Cupp did some minor work....he was in no way criticized by anyone known to me.

I could start to name names here....but I will take the Weiman track ala Oakmont and not print any personal information here due to the pending sensitivity this posting is going to cause.  Several members are upset and I thought this forum was a place to bring complaints.  Obviously everyone has the knee pads out for Mr Prichard.  Personally I could care less how bad/good his work was (I play about 10 rounds at Morris due to my other club affiliations.....I'm there due its proximity to several business interests).  I love the club and think the course is adequate.

But, please keep up the personal attacks.....it shows the lack of maturity of some on this board.  Have fun in the Northeast.....I will be back sometime in April.

And I am far from gone TE Paul........far from it.....I look forward to the next GCA outing.  I would like to meet the attackers personally.

[Patrick_Mucci]

rpurd,

I love this TEPaul asshole......as stated before my name is Rick Purdy.  Before you castigate someone who you don't know I suggest you do your homework.......you may be safe and secure at your little low rated GMills, but you are far from an expert here on this board or in the world.  

As mentioned a few weeks ago......I am through with the bashing of Prichard and his work.  Providing evidence, names of board members who are upset will not satisfy any of you.  And to be perfectly honest I do have a life and cannot stay on this board 24 hours a day to respond to every little inquiry.  But I will respond to any attacks made on me or my character.  And I do not take kindly to them.......

What concerns me is that you haven't offered one scintilla of evidence to support your contention that Ron Prichard has ruined the bunkers in the northeast.

If you're going to make a point, be critical, or bash someone, or someones work, shouldn't you present evidence which supports your position ?

Yet, despite numerous requests, you've failed to do so.

Arrogantly, you refuse to apologize for accusing Ron Prichard of ruining the bunkers at Nassau, when he has never done any work at Nassau.

Are you familiar with the term, LIBEL ?
(Mdugger, help him out with this one, it's a small word.)

Your unsubstantiated assault on Ron Prichard is absurd, embarrassing and disgraceful.

Are you related to Chandler or Mal Purdy ?

Mdugger,

It didn't surprise me that you liked rpurd's posts.

[Jim_Kennedy]

I find it amazing that learned gentlemen will continue to engage themselves in discussion with someone who shows them in his second post that he knows little to nothing of what he speaks.
Here is rpurd's second post, after his first remarks about Ron Prichard.

Just got back into town....the club is Morris County.....as said some members are upset about work done.  And along with the Nassau situation, I think this a legit concern.  I have just heard this situation......and I am now investigating what was done/when it was done.  Will report back with more information..
And Ron's friend.......take a chill pill and relax....no need to stalk me on-line.....jeez what a psycho!

He then proceeds to insult Brad Klein, posts rantings of a  paranoid nature and winds up by insulting Tom Paul.

I have to ask this question: are you all gluttons for punishment? Have you nothing better to do than debate with this obviously uniformed and imprudent poster? Hasn't it occurred to any of you that you are playing right into his hands?
Do you really think you are protecting Ron Prichard's reputation? Do you really believe that anyone would take this crap seriously and not hire Ron Prichard in the future. Does rpurd have any viable credentials that suggest he is a recognized critic of architecture? This isn't a Brad Klein or a Geoff Shackelford making these accusations.

Stop engaging this individual. Don't give this person any more air space by trying to get him to explain himself because he has nothing to say. He has already dragged this BULLS**T out for 16 days, 62 posts and 1,852 page views. That is SAD!!!!!!!!!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim Kennedy,

...He then proceeds to insult Brad Klein, posts rantings of a paranoid nature and winds up by insulting Tom Paul....

Now I am upset, THAT'S MY JOB !  

Jim, I'm not so sure that I agree with you.

If he's maligning Ron on this site, he's probably doing so privately and publicly.

Taking rpurd to task for making irresponsible and damaging remarks may stop him from continuing the practice in other forums.  

Making him accountable for his statements may cause him to think twice before making foolish remarks. 
At least one would hope so.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
You wrote:

Now I am upset, THAT'S MY JOB! (insulting TEP)

I enjoyed the humor but I have never seen you insult TEP or vice versa. Trading barbs while expressing major differences of opinion, yes.

The first few posts were on the pro side of RP's work and I fully understand the initial protective remarks for him or for any other architect. I understand the initial questioning of rpurd as to providing proof for his assertions, i.e. making him accountable for his remarks. Where you lose me is in the continual pursuit for this info when it becomes plain that rpurd has little or none.
It was only a few posts into this thread when Tim Weiman asked to see some specifics (accountability) and suggested that's much better than shooting from the hip (education). rpurd couldn't come up with anything at that time and in my opinion there was no further territory to explore, at least not until rpurd responded with some concrete evidence to back up his claims.
Personally, I don't think rpurd was able to provide any evidence to back up his assertions and this thread should have been long gone because of it. IMHO  

[Michael J. Moss]

Hey people,

This is getting out of hand. As a GCA Newbie, I suggest everyone take a few steps back and cool off. Things are getting way too personal.

If Rpurd and his friends don't like Prichard's bunker work- so be it. He has a definite opinion. He may or may not want to fully explain it to the satisfaction of this board. That's his right. Time to move on.

To many golfers, classical golf architecture means absolutely nothing. I mentioned in an earlier post that when bunkers are made more difficult, there are people who hate them. That they take on a look that conforms to a classic style is lost on them. But it's all a debate. That's the fun. Don't worry about Ron Prichard. He's getting more work than he knows what do with, and every job is a vote. Aronimink is an important fact (on the ground) and we'll hear all about it in early June. My guess is Ron's restoration work will get high marks.

Rpurd should not fade away. Lively debate is what we want. It would be more fun if he would be more engaged, but let's not go crazy.

I've never been to a GCA gathering, but I think I'd like to. However, if someone comes up to me says, "Guns or knives, Mike," I'm gonna freak out. As Rodney King famously said, "Can't we all just get along?"

Hoping for peace in our time!  
-Herman Barron

[Patrick_Mucci]

Herm,

There's a difference between heated passionate exchanges where the parties debating the issues present their case and rpurd's unsubstantiated, non-factual remarks smearing Ron Prichard.

rpurd has made no presentation supporting his case,
after his initial bashing of Ron.

If one makes a wild, disparaging claim about an architect's work and can't provide any supporting information then he has to suffer the barbs of criticism.

That's the way it's always been on this site.

But, his comments directed toward TEPaul, my friend and adversary, are way out of line, and rpurd should offer both TEPaul and Ron Prichard an apology or be banned from this site.

But, that's just my opinion.

On a related matter, the 2ND METRO NY-NJ GCA outing scheduled for January 10, 2004 will be an OPEN, INVITATIONAL event.    

[TEPaul]

Rick Purdy:

Please do yourself and everyone on here a favor and keep the communication between us just between us and off this discussion board. That's one of the purposes of the instant message feature. If you'd put your email on your posts I would have used that. This stuff doesn't belong on here.

[LIman]

Now we have gotten to the absolute absurd level.  The arguementative one Mr. Mucci imploring someone else to act like a gentleman

[TEPaul]

LIman:

Point well taken--but would you mind covering us all and adding a dozen or so more smileys to your post anyway?

[Patrick_Mucci]

LIman,

There's a world of difference between being argumentative, and being personally hostile.

[Steve Lang]

rpurd, $0.02,

What's your point in all of this muckraking and name calling, and what's happended to GCA discussion?

I get the impression from your tone that you're either 14 years old and/or extrememly misguided to engage the DG this way.  Come out from behind the curtain.

[Mike Erdmann]

I would love to come and visit personally and discuss the bunkering at many clubs and your low rated GMills.......can't afford to join a real club, huh?

Rpurd, for your own sake, give it up!  To come on here and criticize Ron Prichard for work on your club and refuse to offer a SINGLE reason for your criticism is one thing, but to criticize him for work at Nassau that he never did is just unbelievable.  Your unwillingness to apologize for your comments just makes you look like a complete and total jackass.  And then to read your attacks on Tom Paul's club affiliation, as if somehow that makes you more reputable, does the seemingly impossible....it makes you look like even MORE of a jackass.

[ChipOat]

Rick Purdy:

Why do you think Ron Prichard's work is overrated?

[Bye]

Geez you guys are really getting your panties in an uproar!

We have architects calling people to give their side of the story?  The phone lines are burning up all along the east coast, especially at Tom Paul's house. Brad Klein's even been insulted! Get a life, you think every member, epecially the older ones are going to like every renovation/restoration project?

Everybody's got an opinion in golf course architecture, ESPECIALLY you guys. You can go on your rants regarding Rees and Fazio for months but god forbid, right or wrong someone insults one of your boys!

[TEPaul]

Hey, BYE where've you been for the last year or so? We've missed you on here.

I think all of us realize there'll be members at any club that don't like something about a restoration/rennovation. Certainly Ron Prichard and Gil Hanse have said as much this week regarding this thread. Big deal--nothing to lose sleep over and certainly not a reason to believe large groups of club members think that bunkering in the Northeast is getting ruined.

Who'd construe that a couple of people complaining about bunkering at Morris Co G.C. while having lunch would indicate bunkering was being ruined in the northeast by Ron Prichard?

The only person I can see who'd construe that is this character rpud/Rick Purdy. Ron Prichard did call to say he understands from Morris Co G.C. that his work there has been well received by the membership. Gil Hanse did call to say his understanding was the architect that worked on bunkering at Nassau was Ron Forse, not Ron Prichard.

Ron Prichard seems to think this rpud incident is pretty funny really---particularly since rpud has criticized his work at Nassau C.C. too--a course Ron's never worked on. Purdy, having heard that even claims he stands by his statement that Ron has worked on Nassau and mentions that he's actually seen "signed copies of his work product".

One wonders what "signed copies of Ron's work product" actually are. Perhaps someone scratched Ron's name in the sand of a bunker there and rpud saw that and assumed it was a signature Ron Prichard bunker.

I don't see that there's that much to get concerned about with all this and I don't see that anyone's panties are in an uproar--certainly the architects aren't particularly concerned. No reason for any of us to be either. The only thing of interest I can see on this whole thread of "ruined bunkering in the Northeast" and all the follow-up adverserialness is what a complete and utter moron rpud/Rick Purdy is.

[LIman]

Why should rpurd apologize?  There have been tons of innapropriate comments uttered on these message boards in the past, nobody ever apologises.

[Patrick_Mucci]

LIman,

That's not true.

Just recently I apologized to Mdugger for confusing him with big words on Darren Kilfara's ND thread.

Why have you listed a false email address ?

Ran,

I thought access for responding could only be granted by registering with a verifiable email address.

[Tim_Weiman]

LIman:

Can you share with us your own view about how rpurd has handled this thread?

Do you think he has provided sufficient details or documentation to support his suggestion that Ron Prichard is "ruining bunkering in the Northeast"?

Do you think requests for him to provide such details are appropriate? Do you think it is appropriate for rpurd to ignore such requests?

Finally, if YOU criticized an architect for work he was never even involved with, wouldn't you feel an apologize was appropriate? If not, why not?

Bye:

Criticism of any architect is welcome. The objection here is that rpurd started by making a very broad statement, but has subsequently refused to provide any details whatsoever.

So, my questions to you are the same as those above.

In your opinion, has rpurd conducted this dialogue in an appropriate manner?

[TEPaul]

Tim:

I think it's very odd that rpud/Purdy has refused after so many requests to supply anything about Morris Co after asserting Ron Prichard ruined the course's bunkering, ruined bunkering at a course he never worked on and is ruining bunkering in the Northeast--but hey, as odd as that is it's not the first time contributors on here have made critical remarks without backing them up--although Purdy's attitude about that is the most egregious I've seen on here.

That's one thing--not the first time or probably the last time by some contributor, and so to me that's no real huge deal but the name calling for no real apparent reason by this guy is another matter altogether.

I have no idea why this guy got so rude all of a sudden and insulted a bunch of us for asking him for information and eventually taking him to task for rudely refusing to supply it.

But the insulting of Brad Klein for telling Purdy the truth about his initial remark, insulting me and a number of others, calling me an asshole a bunch of times on here, rudely denigating my golf club and whatnot---that kind of stuff I'm not going to take lightly or forget about.

I've used the IM feature to try to communicate with this guy off this discussion board--there was no reason to clutter this place up with that. So he took that communication and cut and pasted it on here. I've tried to communicate with him again through the IM--no response. I gave him my tel # and address although I doubt a guy like this will contact me.

If he does, just as my latest message to him on the IM makes clear, there's always plenty of opportunity for all of us to make amends, to apologize, on the DG or on the IM and work things out and start anew.

I told Purdy on the last message on the IM that if he comes on here and apologizes for what he's said on this thread and the things he's said about people on here, and the way he's said them that I will be the first to apologize to him on here for anything I may have said that he feels insulted him.

But if he doesn't do that--if he refuses to do that then I will make it my business to find out more about this man somehow. Anything any of us have said to him that appears rude is only born out of frustration in the context of this Ron Prichard thing at Morris Co and Nassau. But what he's said to us has nothing to do with that--it's just outright personal and insulting--certainly not all in the context of what we think about Ron Prichard or his work.

So unless and until Purdy apologizes on here--and I'm willing to apologize to him in return if he does that---then one of these days Purdy is going to find out that golf in the circles he seems to want to travel in can be a pretty interconnected world and Purdy will come to know that he is going to find himself the true odd man out in that world of golf if he insults people as he has on this thread.

The last message I sent him is an attempt to make amends--I hope he does that--I've tried to and just told him on the IM that now it's his call. But his insulting manner on here is much different to me than his being critical of architecture even when unsupported.

[ian]

Tom,

Please just move on. Let this go. You have much more interesting things in you I would rather learn.

[Mike Erdmann]

Bye,

Criticizing someone's work is one thing, but it doesn't bother you that Rpurd has disparaged Ron Prichard for work that he never did?  Man, I'd assume that if you were willing to use your real name here, you'd be pretty damn upset if someone disparaged your work on a course you never touched.